RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think that in the spirit of cooperation we should just move on, but I want to draw your attention to something; I am not worried about it now, but I want to make this point, and then I am happy for Mr Brown to resume his speech. Your ruling has been a bit tough. I noticed that when Paula Bennett interjected on Trevor Mallard’s point of order, you threw her out. When Mr Harry Duynhoven interjected on Judy Collins’ point of order, you threw him out. But when Peter Brown interjected on mine, as was acknowledged by everyone, somehow that was perfectly OK, and you did not offer any sanction whatsoever.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) Link to this
Mr Hide, I have already dealt with that. As I said, when you raised several points of order several other people were interjecting at that time and there was a lot of discussion.
Hon MURRAY McCULLY (National—East Coast Bays) Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I take you back to the events surrounding your request for Mr Duynhoven to leave the Chamber. When members are told by the Speaker to leave the Chamber, they are required to go immediately, with no further action taking place in the Chamber, and, normally, the Speaker holds up proceedings to make sure that the member who has been instructed to leave does leave.
After Mr Duynhoven’s offence was drawn to your attention, you decided you had to require him to leave. You instructed him to leave, but, rather than leaving, he wandered over to the whip and engaged in a lengthy conversation. My colleague who had raised a further matter was already well into the development of his theme before Mr Duynhoven left the Chamber. I draw to your attention the fact that you had already ruled his actions to be disorderly by requiring him to leave the Chamber. The only thing that can happen after that is for his behaviour to be ruled to be grossly disorderly and for him to be named. That is the approach that you took with regard to one member today, and I now require that you consider taking precisely that action in respect of Mr Duynhoven.
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) Link to this
This is quite important. The matter is now out of time. That matter should have been raised when it happened; the member cannot raise it later. It is now out of time. One could have made exactly the same point about Ms Bennett when she delayed her departure from this House. It is beyond the point of time that the matter should have been raised; the member should not try our patience further.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) Link to this
I noted that Mr Duynhoven did do that. I thought about interrupting the speaker, and refrained from doing that. Mr Duynhoven went. I take your point, Mr McCully.
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
I am raising a new matter. Dr Cullen has just made a suggestion that my actions were out of time, and I want to clarify that matter. This has been something of a brawl. I am not allowed to refer to the fact that the Leader of the House was not here at the time, but I simply say that Dr Cullen may not be in full possession of the facts in relation to the proceedings of the House in the last hour or two. I respond to his assertion by simply saying that I have been trying to raise this point for some time now. The fact that the Speaker has chosen not to give me the call because other matters have been given precedence is not my responsibility, and I reject absolutely the suggestion that I did not raise the matter in time.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) Link to this
The member is probably correct in that a lot of other points of order have been raised. I did not realise that that was the particular point that you were going to raise.
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) Link to this
I will commence where I left off before that interlude. I want to make this point absolutely clear: New Zealand First will pay any moneys that it rightfully and lawfully owes. However, we have reservations—and we are entitled to have reservations—about the Auditor-General’s summation. [ Interruption]
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It might be that not many other people are interested in what this member is saying, but I am, and I cannot hear him, even leaning back hard against the speaker behind me. Could you, maybe, ask for a little more decorum, so that we can hear the member?
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Thank you, Mr Mallard. Can the member please continue.
We have reservations about the Auditor-General’s findings, we are entitled to have those looked into, and we are seeking legal advice. On this issue, I tell members that some top Queen’s Counsel in the country cannot agree on the whole thing.
I want to make this clear also. The Auditor-General alleges he went and spoke with the political parties, and outlined his concern. We know that he spoke to Dr Don Brash, because Don Brash was on the radio saying so, but he did not speak with anybody in New Zealand First, and I do not believe—
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your judgment on Standing Order 111. Given that Mr Brown and his leader have intimated they are seeking a judicial review of their circumstances, it seems to me that it is important that you give a ruling on the issue of whether we can hear his speech, or whether there is a real and substantial danger of prejudice to the trial of the case. On that matter, Mr Assistant Speaker, I seek your view.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
It is a very simple matter. This is not a matter awaiting, or under, adjudication in any court of record at the moment.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If Mr Mallard’s proposition were correct, then, clearly, Mr Brown is misleading the House, and you must, most definitely, have a view on that.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
I have only just stepped into this debate. I am listening very carefully to what Mr Brown is saying, and I will continue to do that. In the meantime, I say that Mr Brown should not get into the details of the case if papers have been filed.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Hang on, Mr Brown. I am on my feet; please be seated. I am saying to the member that he should not get into the details of the case if papers have been filed. If they have been filed, the member should not get into the details of the case; if they have not been filed, it is a different matter.
Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and let me put your mind at rest. I have not spoken about any judicial review or any papers, or any speaking about any judicial review or papers—or any legal court, or anything else along those lines. I have suggested that New Zealand First will be consulting lawyers, and getting their advice. We understand that the Auditor-General spoke with, at least, the National Party, and advised its members some time before that he was going to take a tougher or a different line on this issue. At no point did he speak with anybody in New Zealand First. I will say that again: at no time did he speak with anybody in New Zealand First. I do not believe that he spoke with the Māori Party, the Green Party, or United Future, but they can clarify that for themselves. At no time, so it appears, did he advise even the Parliamentary Service, because some of the so-called offending material that we have been found guilty of using was checked by the Parliamentary Service. We had clearance from the Parliamentary Service. Then, for the Auditor-General to claim, by vague references—
—that this July 2000 report constitutes a warning for the third parties is, we believe, patently unfair. It is all very well for Simon Power to say: “Like a Solicitor-General’s report.”; the Auditor-General knocked on Don Brash’s door and spoke with him for quite some considerable time.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Can members be seated. I say to the members on my left—many of whom have been in this Chamber for many years—that I would like them to look at Speakers’ ruling 57/3: “Interjections … are out of order unless they are rare and reasonable;”—and, as a former colleague in this place used to say, they sometimes, at least, might be witty.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Speakers’ ruling 57/3; I have made a ruling.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to clarify, because of all that has gone on this afternoon, whether the member speaking—and I raise this point now before he continues, so that I am not interrupting him again—has declared his financial interests in this matter, and whether his case is different from those of the rest of us. We think it is different, because we do not owe the money. Is this a financial interest that should be declared by the member?
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I think you know, Mr Assistant Speaker, and I think that that member knows, that there is not a financial interest in this. If one looks at this appropriation legislation, one sees that the case is exactly the opposite. If there were to be any interest, it would be in the approach that some members opposite have been suggesting. There is none in this bill.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
I think the Minister has made a good point, but I am prepared to listen to what the member has to say.
Mr Assistant Speaker, I refer you to Standing Order 165(1), which states: “A financial interest is a direct financial benefit that might accrue to a member personally, or to any trust, company or other business entity in which the member holds an appreciable interest, as a result of the outcome of the House’s consideration of a particular item of business.” I put it to you that the member who has just resumed his seat—Mr Brown—would, on an ordinary reading of that particular Standing Order, have a financial interest. He needs simply to declare that interest, as I see it, under Standing Order 166, and I request that you ask him to do that.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I do not want to prolong this any more than is necessary, but I explain for the House that when one is dealing with financial matters, there are really two sorts. The first is when there is spending—the sort we are currently dealing with—and the second is one when there is income revenue to the Government, or taxation, which would deal with matters of refunds. At the moment we are dealing with an appropriation, and therefore it makes no difference to whether refunds are made. Therefore members cannot possibly have a financial interest in it.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Thank you, Mr Mallard. It is up to members individually to declare whether they have a financial interest. It does not relate to individual members. I understand that the matter has been dealt with, in a previous sitting.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You pointed us to Speakers’ ruling 57/3, on interjections, and I notice here that the rule was originally made by Speaker Statham, in—
—1923, yes. It was upheld by Speaker Barnard in 1936. It was further upheld by Speaker Barnard in 1936, and there have been no updates since. So this is a 70-year-old Standing Order. Things have moved on a bit, Mr Assistant Speaker, and I think there is an opportunity here for you.
No, I think Assistant Speaker Robertson could well find himself making the 2006 ruling. It would be quite a contrast—1936 with 2006. I was fascinated that you obviously are very aware of it, because you called our attention to it without reference to the book. You are well aware of the importance, I suspect, of the interjection process. Goodness, the whole House would be asleep most of the time if it were not for interjections. I just say one more time that you really do need to think about updating that particular Speaker’s ruling.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Thank you, Mr Brownlee. I have taken note of what you said. I call the honourable member Peter Brown.
I seek leave to start at the beginning and go through it all again, because clearly members opposite do not understand the issue.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
The House is the master of its own destiny. The member is perfectly entitled to seek leave if he so wishes.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. The member will continue.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Let us give Mr Brown the courtesy of being heard, colleagues.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There has been a misunderstanding. The “Yes” was in fact an affirmation that we would like the member to start again. Put the leave again.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that what Mr Brownlee is saying is that there was no objection from the National caucus to leave being granted, and that there was a misunderstanding. Everyone was so enthusiastic to hear Mr Brown’s speech uninterrupted from the start that an involuntary exclamation was emitted. I think the House actually—and I am relying on the previous Speaker’s ruling that it is the intent that is important—intended that leave be granted, and I think it was granted.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The House sets precedents for itself. The very last time that my colleague Dr Worth sought leave, the very same thing had happened; there had been an error of judgment from within the Labour caucus, and Dr Worth sought that the leave be put again. I think it is totally appropriate that it be put again. The same mistake has occurred on this side. There is a precedent. We would certainly encourage Mr Brown to put his leave again.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Thank you. The thing is that the issue is in the hands of Mr Brown.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have two points. The first is that, again, I am having trouble hearing the member. The second point is that in the racket he might have missed the point that everyone wants to hear his speech again. But only he can seek leave for that.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Thank you, Mr Mallard. I just say that the practice of members engaging in barracking is intolerable in this Chamber. I call Mr Brown to continue his speech.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
No, I have dealt with this issue, Mr Hide. The member is to continue his speech.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not think you understood what I said. Maybe I did not communicate it very well to you. My point was that leave had actually been granted. It does not need to be put again. The House granted Mr Brown leave—that was the intent of the House—to start his speech again. Leave has been granted.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
Thank you, Mr Hide. That is not the intent I got from Opposition benches. We have all been in this House for a long time, and know that when somebody says “Yes” when leave is put, he or she is objecting. That is the normal practice and has been ever since I have been a member of Parliament, which is nearly 20 years. I will put the case back in the hands of Mr Brown. It is his call. He is the man making the speech, and he is the only one who has the right to ask for leave. If he chooses not to do so, that is his decision.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I put my hand up and say that I said “Yes”, but it was a “Yes, Mr Brown! We’re going to hear it again!”. It was an affirmation.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
I thank the member, but it is up to Mr Brown. I have already ruled. Please continue your speech, Mr Brown.
I would have thought it appropriate for the Auditor-General at least to have advised the Parliamentary Service in clear, concise terms what he was going to do. When New Zealand First had our pamphlets, our brochures, checked off, they were OK’d by the Parliamentary Service. On page 54 of the report—if anyone in the National Party wants to read it—the Auditor-General makes it quite clear that he sees that one of the remedies is that the Parliamentary Service should sign off any proposed spending. That is exactly what we asked for. We think this bill is essential in order to clarify the circumstances in which we operate in Parliament.
In conclusion, I have to say that I have never seen such childish behaviour in my life. If this is what the National Party has become, then God help it.
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) Link to this
The Greens will abstain from voting on this bill, in accordance with our cooperation agreement with the Government on all matters of confidence and supply. A month ago I announced that the Greens would pay the full amount found to have been spent outside the scope of our parliamentary appropriation but that we would not support validation legislation, on the principle that MPs should not use their power to legislate in order to remove themselves from accountability. Since then, it has been clarified that the form taken by the legislation makes it a matter of confidence and supply, so there would need to be an extremely good reason not to observe our commitment under the cooperation agreement, which is to abstain. It is also clear that this legislation is actually required by the Public Finance Act, and the House cannot really get around that.
We would be entirely happy not to oppose the bill at all if all parties had committed themselves to their moral obligation to repay any spending that has been found to be outside the scope of the appropriation. However, two parties have yet to make that commitment. We would be very concerned if this legislation was used by them as an excuse not to pay the money back. The obligation is simply a moral one. We can find no legal obligation on any party to make restitution for what is found to have been spent in error. But the passing of validation legislation does not absolve anyone from that moral obligation, onerous though it must be for parties that, like our party, have reduced representation this term compared with that in the previous term.
In the Committee stage, we will support those clauses that set out the rules from here on. If the bill could be split into two, we would support those clauses at the third reading too, but it appears that it will not be. It is essential that the law gives us some guidance as to the meaning of “parliamentary purposes” and “electioneering”; otherwise, none of us know what we can and cannot do with our leaders’ budgets right now. It is true that we were all warned that we could not use parliamentary appropriations for electioneering, and I think we all agree with that. It is also true that electioneering has never been defined, so we all followed a rule of thumb that we could not ask for votes for a candidate or a party, and that we could not solicit money or membership in any way.
The Auditor-General’s 2005 report did not clarify electioneering any further than that. To the extent that it did try to clarify the rules, those criteria are not applied in the Auditor-General’s 2006 report. Our 2006 spending has been audited using a different set of rules from those set out in the Auditor-General’s 2005 report. For example, the 2005 report identifies a principle of democratic interaction, saying that dialogue between representatives and the public is a valid and fundamental part of a democracy. Yet newspaper advertisements that invited the public to discussions with me on climate change and oil depletion were ruled out of order, though they made no reference whatever to the election.
We also have a new rule that the legality of an action changes dramatically 3 months before an election. That is despite the opinion of the Solicitor-General, which the Auditor-General says he relies on, that explicitly says that things lawful for the rest of a parliamentary term do not suddenly become unlawful 3 months before an election. The Auditor-General relies on the Electoral Act for that ruling, which is never applied to the spending of the Parliamentary Service appropriation. It is a particularly difficult ruling to apply, given that one never knows that the 3-month period had started until the election has been called, which usually occurs at least a month later. So we are meant to try to second-guess when the election will be held, in order to determine when spending suddenly becomes unlawful.
The Auditor-General has applied a ruling that any mention of the future, or of a vision, by a party constitutes electioneering. That would seem to favour parties that wish only to preserve the status quo. I also fail to understand the application of a criterion of wide dispersal, where the more widely a communication has been dispersed, the more it is held to be electioneering. Under MMP, list members and parties have nationwide constituencies. Surely, if a communication is lawful in one place, it is lawful in several places. I raised my concerns regarding all those newly imposed criteria with Mr Brady when I asked to see him, and I have still not had any satisfactory explanation of the criteria that he has used.
Since the election, the Auditor-General has defined as electioneering any discussion on matters not actually before the House. No such ruling was given to us before the election, and it advantages members of the Government, who are likely to want to talk about legislation they are promoting, rather than Opposition parties, who prefer to discuss with the public legislation they would like to introduce but have not had the opportunity to introduce.
Clause 7 defines “parliamentary purposes” in the way they have been understood for some time: excluding the seeking of votes, money, or members. At least with that through, we can continue to do our jobs as MPs in the interim, while new rules are developed before the next election. The Greens look forward to participating in that process.
Some very serious issues of democratic principle are raised by this investigation and this ruling. Members and parties are elected to pursue certain policies on behalf of the public. Elections are, or should be, a contest of policies. The business of Parliament is partly about ensuring stable government, and much of its lawmaking is not particularly contentious. But it is also about a contest of ideas for the future of our country. A central question is whether MPs are allowed to use parliamentary funding to discuss their policies with the public. That goes to the heart of the issue. If they are not permitted to do that, then parties without rich backers will have difficulty in informing the public about what they propose, and a poorly informed public cannot support a democracy. The ruling from the Auditor-General says that we may not use our leaders’ budgets to tell the public about the policies we are advocating. It is hard to see what we can, then, use them for. Can Dr Brash, for example, give the House his word that no letters were sent from his office in the 3 months before the election outlining the National Party’s policies, or is it just that there is no audit trail for that sort of activity as distinct from advertisements taken out in newspapers?
It will always be difficult to draw a line between where work as a parliamentarian stops and electioneering starts. That is why we need clear guidelines if the line is to be drawn in a different place from where we always thought it was drawn. In particular, this report is a very partial audit of parliamentary funding for parties. It has looked only at advertising expenditure. If the advertising budget cannot be used to discuss our policies with the public, then surely neither can our staffing budget, our travel budget, our accommodation budget, or our phone budget.
If staff are not allowed to prepare responses to questions from the public and the media about our policy positions, it is difficult to see what they can do in the period after the House rises for the election. There is no parliamentary business for them to assist with. Parliament is in recess then in order to allow the democratic process of electing representatives to occur, at which time the overwhelming public interest is in learning factually about the policies the parties are proposing. No one has ever told us that all staff must be sacked on the day after the House rises for the election, which would be the consequence of applying the criterion the Auditor-General has proposed.
The report also raises questions about the use of money allocated for MPs’ travel and other expenses during that period. It is surely absurd that we cannot use parliamentary money to invite people to a meeting to discuss our policy, but we can use it for the leaders to travel to the TV debates, which are totally about electioneering.
Those are all matters that the Parliamentary Service committee must consider in order to have new rules in place before the next election. It may be that the definition of “parliamentary purposes” should be somewhat narrower than that set out in clause 7. Advertisements that do not solicit votes or money, but that nevertheless make disparaging comments about other parties or simply carry slogans with no information or content, might equally be held not to be for parliamentary purposes and to be solely for electioneering purposes. That is for the Parliamentary Service committee to determine in its deliberations. For the moment, we have the guidance we need in order to continue to do our work as MPs.
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Māori Party—Waiariki) Link to this
Tēnā koe; kia ora tātou. For months this Parliament has been swooning over three little words, and they have not been “I love you.” “Pay it back” has been the constant call, and today we see how this Government is addressing the political inferno that has erupted around paybacks. We thought that last Thursday the Government had the guts to fess up, to come clean—
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
No, the member will be seated. You cannot challenge the Government’s courage or that of a member. That is a personal reflection. The member cannot use that word. He cannot challenge someone’s courage.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hate to disagree with you. I think the member actually praised the Government for having courage, and a member is allowed to do that.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) Link to this
I am sorry; that is my mistake. My apologies, Mr Flavell.
TE URUROA FLAVELL Link to this
—and to plead guilty that spending of $447,000 on a pledge card is unlawful expenditure, and we welcomed the Prime Minister’s statement to that effect. Compliance with party and member support appropriations under Vote Parliamentary Service is a critical part of doing our job.
The Māori Party accepts the report of the Controller and Auditor-General, Kevin Brady, and understands only too well the importance of certain concepts that are very freely thrown around in this Chamber—concepts such as honesty, integrity, and accountability. We endorse unreservedly the Auditor-General’s comments on the need for the prudent management of public money. We also share his concern around the significant breaches of the appropriations. We look forward to robust debate about what are legitimate parliamentary purposes, as opposed to electioneering purposes, at the table of the Parliamentary Service Commission and the appropriation review committee. But no, Labour had to shuffle the cards before they were even dealt, and it has introduced appropriation legislation as a confidence and supply matter. We are all under the scope of public scrutiny, and the Māori Party has stood up to that scrutiny and paid the money back. We paid the dues—all $53.70 worth. That was the right thing to do, and it was the honourable thing to do.
I want to talk a little more on the concept of honour, for just one moment. Is it honourable to accuse an official of besmirching the reputation of politicians? Is it honourable to send strongly worded dispatches to the Parliamentary Service in order to apply more pressure to make it pay a bill for the distribution of the infamous pledge card? Is it honourable to take money from the public to pay for political electioneering, not just in 2005 but in 2002 and 1999 as well? Is it honourable to introduce legislation to validate unlawful spending? The honour comes in admitting a wrong has been done and offering to pay the money back. The honour comes in meeting our responsibilities as members of Parliament to the taxpayers of this nation. The honour comes in being accountable to the citizens of Aotearoa.
The response from the Speaker to the Auditor-General’s report was a stunning display of verbal gymnastics. In particular, it states that if there is no validation, reimbursement does not purge the unlawfulness. I quote: “Without validating legislation, the unlawfulness remains.” So what is the issue at hand? Is it the unlawfulness, or is it the lack of validating legislation to purge the unlawfulness? Clearly the latter has prevailed with today’s introduction of legislation whipped up under the frenzy of urgency.
We absolutely agree that in the court of public opinion, this Parliament has been found guilty of crimes against the taxpayer, in terms of some $1.2 million of parliamentary funds having been spent unlawfully on electioneering by MPs. We need to have a speedy resolution to the issue if we are ever to build confidence in the public, so that we will not be summed up in one of those Tui ads that might read: “MPs can be trusted not to fritter away taxpayer funds for their own election campaigns. Yeah, right!”.
The Māori Party considers the question of transparency to be central to the debate at hand. When our whanaunga break the law, they are charged and prosecuted. They plead guilty or not guilty, enter a plea bargain, get immunity because they are prepared to give evidence against another person, or, if convicted, get fined, home detention, community service, or even incarceration. I have never heard of any of them seeking retrospective legislation to validate their unlawful behaviour. The Māori Party has to ask where the old maxim “do the crime, do the time” went. All of a sudden, the high-minded parliamentary moral police are silent. Although paying up will not purge the unlawfulness of the expenditure, is it not transparently obvious that in wanting to pass retrospective legislation, all this Parliament will do is to validate or legalise the illegal? The logical upshot of this is that the most guilty parties will then claim that what they did was not unlawful, and we can therefore expect that they will say they do not have to pay their dues. That is cheeky and arrogant, and it knows no bounds.
We cannot resile from the fact that this whole inquiry into parliamentary spending came into being because of the lack of transparency—the fuzzy boundaries between departmental, ministerial, and political advertising—that was evident through the Working for Families promotion. The Māori Party has asked on a number of occasions where the honour was in introducing a policy that actively discriminates against 250,000 New Zealand children who have at least one parent on a benefit. How can this Government sit silent, knowing that it has forced the Child Poverty Action Group to take legal action in the High Court over the in-work payment—the $60 a week that beneficiary families are prevented from accessing. How ironic it is that on this day, International Anti-Poverty Day, on the one hand we are discussing an Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill to justify unlawful spending by MPs—MPs who will soon benefit from another pay rise—while on the other hand this Government is denying money to our most vulnerable families.
We absolutely agree with the Speaker’s advice that this matter must be considered seriously if public confidence in Parliament is to be maintained. In honour of this moment in history, we want to shift the rhetoric from a focus on “payback” to a drive to “pay forward”. The concept of payback brings with it notions of revenge, punishment, and retribution. We want, instead, to promote the notion of paying forward. Paying forward is an investment in the future. It says: “I will care for you, I will look after you.” Paying forward is a way of contributing to the well-being of people. It is a promise of compassion, and a commitment to integrity.
How much more honourable it would be for the record Government surplus of $11.5 billion to be spent on the future of Aotearoa. We could invest in justice—Treaty justice. We have been told repeatedly that $1.3 billion until 2010 is all that the country can afford to pay for the land alienation and confiscation that occurred over 150 years. I remind this House of the advice from Professor Margaret Mutu that the settlement claims equate to approximately 0.6 percent of what the claims are really worth. Hirini Moko Mead of Ngāti Awa, in describing the direct negotiations process, explained: “Very often, there is no negotiation, but rather there is a statement that this is the Crown’s policy and this is what you have to live with.” Our people have gone into settlements, accepting that the deals that are done are, at best, a compromise that by no means compensates for the magnitude of their loss. And even then, in the case of the Te Arawa lakes settlement, the settlement contained confiscations anew, through the intervention of a new concept: the Crown stratum. Paying forward would acknowledge a grievance had occurred, and the claimants could be supported to achieve fair and durable settlements.
The opportunity provided by the Auditor-General’s report was, indeed, a turning point in the history of this nation. But the hard work will come with paying forward and setting a pathway for the nation. Now is the time to invest in the future—a future based on honesty, accountability, and justice. We could invest in the ongoing health of the nation, by ensuring we retain quality medical specialists rather than losing them to international salaries. We could invest in Māori, Pasifika, sole parents and benefit-dependent families, for whom poverty has become entrenched. We as a nation could pay forward, clawing back our reputation internationally from that of a nation that breaches the human rights of indigenous peoples to that of a nation that upholds the rights of every citizen to achieve his or her optimal well-being—mauri ora. This is an opportunity to truly pay forward, and to invest in a new direction in setting a pathway for the nation. Now that would be extraordinary legislation, which we would sign up to. Kia ora tātou.
Hon PETER DUNNE (Leader—United Future) Link to this
In speaking to the Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill, I want to make my remarks in two parts. The first part deals with the Auditor-General’s report and the response to that, and the second deals with the legislation itself. I think that at least one party in the House may not have quite caught up with the news that United Future has agreed to repay the amount deemed owing in the report, and we will do so as soon as we are in a position to meet that commitment.
That commitment will not change with the passage of this legislation. Our view is that although we think there are considerable flaws in the Auditor-General’s report and the logic that he applied to his decisions, those considerations actually count for nothing in the public mind. The public is clearly of a view that parties misappropriated their funding and that parties have consequently to make good that misappropriation. Whatever our thinking about the nature of the report and the way it was carried out, we will honour that commitment. That stands, regardless of the fate of this bill. So I say unequivocally to those who fear that the passage of the legislation may be used as a vehicle to say that what was deemed to be unlawful is therefore now lawful, so our obligations do not apply, that in our case we do not accept that logic. We accept the commitment and we will meet it.
The second point I make relates to the bill itself. It has been said—and I think with some truth—that validation measures are not unusual in this Parliament, and some very large validation measures have been passed through this Parliament over the years. In fact, I recall one for something in the order of $350 million in one instance. In this case, Treasury has advised that, given its role as the steward of the public finances and looking at the provisions of the Public Finance Act, there is now a question—a very real question—about the validity of all parliamentary expenditure under these headings, going back to 1989-90. The consequence of a question being asked about the lawfulness of expenditure over a 17-year period raises serious questions for the integrity of the books of successive Governments over that period. Therefore, there is a strong case to pass legislation to clarify immediately that that expenditure was, in fact, lawful; that removes not just a question of doubt over the 2004-05 and 2005-06 years, but the question of doubt that Treasury has identified right back to 1989-90.
I observe in passing that at that level this is just not an argument about parliamentary spending. If the integrity of the books of New Zealand is in question, then so too is our integrity in the international financial marketplace, and our ability to do business in that sense has been adversely affected. So this legislation becomes more serious and more necessary in that regard.
The next aspect of the legislation that is important is to clarify the definition of “electioneering”. We may not be in election mode at the moment, but it is unclear, arising out of the Auditor-General’s report—and particularly if one relies on the advice of the Solicitor-General, then looks at the conflicting advice from Mr Hodder—what actually constitutes electioneering at the present time. One thing we can say is that a majority of parties in this House, if not all, have historically had a view about what one can and cannot say, and that view is challenged in the Auditor-General’s report. So at the very least, an argument emerges that we need to codify what it is that constitutes election spending, and that is what this bill does by taking a very conservative approach in that it effectively replicates what most of us have understood to be the status quo.
But because there is uncertainty moving forward, the bill introduces a sunset clause at the end of next year—31 December 2007—on the strong understanding that in that time the Parliamentary Service Commission, members of Parliament, and the parties in this Parliament will work to develop new rules that are more specific, more transparent, less uncertain, and less open to the misinterpretation that clearly applied across the board, at least in the mind of the Auditor-General, before the 2005 general election. So this bill sends a signal in that regard—that it expects further work to be done.
Members may well ask: “Why the urgency—why the need to do this right now?”. I say two things in response to that. Firstly, the Speaker, in her response to the Auditor-General’s report last week—and I hope I am not involving her in the debate by quoting her report—highlighted some circumstances that could be occurring right now where expenditure by members on areas they thought were legitimate is brought into question. For the safe and good running of this Parliament and the whole process that we are about, that cannot continue unanswered.
The second point is that my party has already had accounts for payment returned to it by the Parliamentary Service since last week—accounts that in the normal course of events would be paid because they satisfy the conditions—on the grounds that in the wake of the Auditor-General’s report, new uncertainties now apply. So we are now getting to the situation where the day-to-day business of this place—and I am not talking about electioneering accounts—is being put in some doubt, not by officious bureaucrats, but by cautious people saying: “Given that ruling, we are uncertain as to how we proceed.” So that is what introduces an element of urgency into this legislation.
There will be many who will say that this is Parliament rushing to get itself out of a hole. I do not think that is true, because even by making lawful what the Auditor-General has deemed to be unlawful, in my view we do not remove the moral obligation on those who have accepted it to repay the debts that have been attributed to them. But what we do is remove the uncertainty that now affects the Crown accounts, that now affects the way in which this Parliament operates, and the big question that hangs not so much over us but over the staff who support us, about what they can actually do as part of their normal duties helping us do the work we are elected to do.
This has not been one of Parliament’s most glorious moments. This has not been a happy affair, whatever position one takes in relation to it. But the reality is that we need to act decisively to resolve it. Given the commitments that most parties have made to meet the obligations imposed upon them by the Auditor-General, we need now to tidy up this situation so there can be no uncertainties in the future.
I hope that parties do not take the view that this lets them off the hook. United Future takes the view that we have some obligations imposed upon us by the Auditor-General’s report. In the case of a very small party, they are very big obligations. I was tempted at the beginning to declare a massive financial interest in this, because it certainly is for my bank balance. That is actually not the point. We accept that responsibility, we move on, and now we make sure that the rules that emerge as a result of this exercise are ones that are robust, clearly understood, able to be supported by all, and not subject to the sort of misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and unruly and sometimes very bitter debate that the experience of the last election has occasioned.
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) Link to this
There is no need for validating legislation. Sure there has been some unlawful spending, as identified by the Auditor-General. Well, that can stand. It can be left as unlawful spending. I do not believe that our Parliament and our Government have done themselves at all proud in the way this matter has been handled.
The Auditor-General is an officer of Parliament. We make him an officer of Parliament so he is independent of the political day-to-day business of Government. We spend taxpayers’ money. I believe that we did try to stay within the rules. I believe every party when it says that. However, we know that it is possible to get it wrong, and we did. The person who said that we got it wrong was the Auditor-General. He gave us an opportunity to have an input on his draft report and I believe that every party, bar New Zealand First, did so. New Zealand First, for its own reasons, chose to dispute the report after it had become finalised. I myself sent a strong letter to the Auditor-General, and I met with him and spoke on the phone on, I think, three occasions. I made a very strong representation to him and he listened to me most carefully.
In the end, he reached his conclusions and I regard him as a referee. If this Parliament, we as politicians, and, indeed, the Government, are to have any sort of integrity and legitimacy, then we have to say: “OK, I gave it my best shot. The Auditor-General gave me an opportunity, and this is what he has found.” And it does hurt that he found against us. It hurts not just financially, it actually hurts that we have been accused of spending money unlawfully. I know that our party—and I am sure the other parties, including the Labour Party—believed that it was following the rules. But, having been found by the Auditor-General to be outside the rules, then I think that as parliamentarians we have to accept it and lump it.
What I found particularly distasteful was Ministers of the Crown, including the Prime Minister, attempting to bully the Auditor-General and to attack the Auditor-General, because I think that brings his office into question. I certainly believe that it undermines the authority of our Parliament, because every other New Zealander apart from the 121 MPs in this House, when found to be operating unlawfully, cannot rush off and change the law. They cannot turn round and abuse the referee. There are consequences for doing that.
Here are we, making the laws for the rest of New Zealand to follow, attempting to uphold our justice system, and, indeed, offering some integrity to the way in which taxpayers’ hard-earned money is spent, yet we saw the Prime Minister and Ministers of the Crown attack the Auditor-General in a way that we would not accept from any other New Zealander. We have seen Ministers of the Crown, including the Prime Minister, attempt to say that there are no rules for how they spend hard-working taxpayers’ money. Well, that cannot be right.
Now we find ourselves in Parliament changing the law to make lawful what the Auditor-General found to be unlawful. I will make it plain what we are saying here: MPs have unlawfully spent money that was hard-earned by taxpayers, so what will we do? We will use the special privilege and special power we have to change that law in order to make what was unlawful lawful. That is wrong.
It is wrong that we are doing it, and it is wrong that we are doing it in such haste. We can think of all the issues that confront New Zealanders, and our Government and our Parliament say that they are too busy to deal with them, but when it comes to our politicians’ own self-interest—wow! Suddenly Parliament has time. And we are rushing it through under urgency so that the public, whose money it is that is being spent—by us—does not have a say, and so that when we are found in breach of the rules that we expect all New Zealanders to follow and all civil servants to follow and uphold at their peril, we do not worry. No, under Helen Clark’s Government, we rush in with the legislator’s pen, we stop Parliament in its tracks, we bring legislation into the House, and we pass it under urgency.
That cannot be a right process, and the easiest thing to do is for us to pay the money back. I value United Future’s position that those members will pay it back; I value the Labour Party’s position that it will pay it back. I think that that is the right thing for us to do, as much as it pains us. But it cannot be right that we are here under urgency, changing the law, and I will make it plain.
We had a situation where the Prime Minister signed a painting that she did not paint. There were legal implications arising from that. We cannot rush off and change the law on that basis. The law of art fraud has to stay as it is. We know from the police report that, yes, the Prime Minister broke the law. What she did was unlawful. She was not prosecuted or convicted, and that is fine, but what she did was unlawful—just like the spending that Helen Clark did was unlawful and just as the spending that the National MPs did was unlawful—and it should just stand. It does not need validating legislation. Helen Clark’s motorcade sped through the South Island at breakneck speed. That, too, was unlawful. We did not rush off to change the law to say that we will make lawful what was unlawful. Ruth Dyson was caught having had too much to drink then driving. We did not rush to change the law—no! Members of Parliament have to accept the consequences of the rules. They cannot use their special position of power and privilege to change the law.
I listened most carefully to Dr Michael Cullen’s reasons for the other expenditure that MPs make and I think there is confusion over what the rules now are. I certainly think that when we head into the next election there will be huge confusion, so the rules have to be tidied up. But the way to tidy up the rules is not to rush legislation through Parliament. It is not actually Parliament’s legislation that defines how we can spend the money. There is a reason for that: we do not want the courts looking into Parliament and at how it spends the money. That is why we have never put it on the statute book; it is for Parliament itself to decide. So what we should be doing, rather than rushing in here in Parliament to change the rules, is to take a considered approach, as is envisioned, in order to get some proper rules about how we spend the money.
Let me put in my two pennies’ worth. I think we should have budgets, like we have with the leaders’ budgets and for MPs. I do not think we can control the spending with a whole lot of rules. I think that is too tough. So I suggest instead that we have fewer rules and more transparency. I think the public has a right to know how political parties spend its money, what they spend it on, and how it is broken down, and I think the Parliamentary Service should be subject to the Official Information Act. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the Labour Party should be able to take its leader’s budget and spend it on the pledge card. That is its budget. But I say that the public has a right to know, because we have found that that is where the rubber hits the road. The public has a right to know how we spend its money.
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) Link to this
In the few minutes between now and the dinner break I will see whether I can convince my colleague Mr Rodney Hide to change his vote on the basis of this logic. I understand that the member said he felt that passing this legislation did not matter. He did point out that it had no bearing on whether one paid the money or refunded any outstanding moneys. He did understand that the passage of this legislation lets no one off the hook in terms of one’s decision of whether to refund any outstanding moneys, and he does understand that the non-passage of this legislation puts no one on the hook in respect of refunding any moneys owed.
He also pointed out the fact that money has been unlawfully spent and, even though Madam Speaker and Treasury think that the legislation should be passed, he has an argument that asks: “If it were not passed, what harm would be done?”. I will not respond to that; that is his point of view. But I do invite the member to reflect on this: we do not know now what we can spend money on. We do not know that now. There is a reason prospectively—not retrospectively, I say to Mr Hide, but prospectively—to say that this legislation should be supported because it provides parliamentarians with a brightline as to what they may and may not do prospectively until new rules are in place. The Auditor-General’s findings, whether or not one agrees with them, are broad, wide reaching, and significant. The changes have been enunciated by speaker after speaker.
Well, that ruling stands unless this legislation passes. Therefore, all this stuff about Dr Brash going to Nelson to sign up a person from the Green Party into the National Party, and all of the examples given by Dr Cullen in the first speech in this debate are true—and any legal opinion would back that. In fact, the Solicitor-General’s own legal opinion backs that.
Bill English says that it is all rubbish, because that is as far as his intense intellectual ability takes him. The problem is that we do need to think prospectively. I would say to Mr Hide that there is a case for him to consider changing his vote to one of support—if not now, then at the third reading, because I do not think that this group of 121 people can operate unless there is validating legislation that tells us with some certainty what we can and cannot do.
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) Link to this
Before we start, I say to Mr English that I heard the comment he made as I sat down. Would the member like to withdraw and apologise?
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) Link to this
In order to remind the House of why we are debating the Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill today, let us go back to 22 August last year. On that day, Labour Party volunteers all around the country went to their electorate offices and campaign headquarters, and picked up boxes of the pledge card. Those volunteers set off to every corner of every suburb in every town, to deliver that pledge card. They put it in mailboxes, street by street.
The families, young people, and pensioners of New Zealand went out to the mailbox, picked up their mail, and took the pledge card back inside. Some of them just threw it in the rubbish because they were sick of the election already, and some of them had a quick look and saw Helen Clark’s face on the card—nothing new—and did not take any more notice of it. Others picked up that pledge card and looked at it. They saw promises of a rates rebate; of 250 new community police, which made them think about the burglary down the street last week; and of a $10,000 grant to young couples who were trying to buy their first home. Then they looked at the TV and saw pictures of the political leaders going about the business of election campaigning. Those good citizens of New Zealand thought they were in an election campaign. And so did the Labour Party volunteers, who were delivering that pledge card.
But if members read the evidence that the Labour Party gave to the police when they investigated complaints under the Electoral Act, they will find that two people at least thought Labour was not in an election campaign. They were the people who were running it: Helen Clark and Heather Simpson.
Everyone else thought they were in an election campaign. Some of those mums and dads might have made up their minds on that night, but it was still 3 weeks until election day. Over those 3 weeks those mums and dads faced a barrage of advertisements in the newspaper and on TV that tried to change their minds about how to vote. Do members remember the newspaper ads in the last week of the campaign—“Don’t take the risk.”?
Labour told the police that its spending was legal, and that the pledge card was not electioneering but normal parliamentary business. Who ever believed that Labour believed what it was saying? The truth was that all that advertising in the last week or so before the election was unlawful, because it was paid for by taxpayers’ money in the first place, and, more important, because it broke the cap on electoral spending in a campaign.
We are told that the law is unclear. Well, the law on electioneering and the election spending cap are very clear. That has been laid down by the courts, and the consequences of a failure to comply are very clear. Members should ask Reg Boorman, who was ejected from Parliament, and Bob Clarkson, who could have been ejected, about that.
We have order in a community when people obey unenforceable law. If a sign says “No dogs allowed”, people do not take their dogs there; if there is a red traffic light at 2 o’clock in the morning, people do not run that red light. That is order in a community. It has turned out that the electoral law that caps campaign expenditure is unenforceable. The Labour Party dared the police to prosecute a Government that had just won an election, and the police decided not to do so. So it has turned out that that law is unenforceable. That is why the Labour Party has breached the bond of trust with the New Zealand public. It did those things knowing full well what it was doing. How do we know that? Well, the Auditor-General warned us—all of us—that the conduct of politicians had been too loose. The Chief Electoral Officer put that in writing to the Labour Party, and said that it must count that spending as electoral expenses. But Labour ignored that letter.
You see, respect for the rule of law is a positive quality; it is not just obedience under the fear of discovery and punishment. It is clear now that although there has been a discovery of Labour’s breach of the electoral law, there has been no punishment for that. The positive quality of respect for the rule of law must be exhibited particularly by those who make the law, because a Government has more power than anyone else. It has more opportunity and more temptation to breach the law, and more capacity to fight its corner if it breaks the rules. Of course, a Government has the deepest pockets. It can take anyone to court at any time, and it can put up with any attack from anybody.
We are here because the Labour Party breached the bond of trust and lost its moral authority. It showed no respect for the law, for its officers, or for the consequences of breaking the law. At some stage we all have broken the law, and we have respected those consequences. But this Government does not respect them. It has exploited the privilege of power. It has bullied, browbeaten, and used every tool at its command—including this parliamentary process—to avoid the consequences of breaching a law it knew it was breaching. What does it say about a party that was founded on the principles of defending the poor and vulnerable, that Labour has shown, in the last 12 months in New Zealand, an ugly and a fierce willingness to use the privileges of power totally in the service of its own political ends—not the public interest?
Who could possibly argue that the behaviour of the Prime Minister, Helen Clark, has been in the public interest in the last 6 months? It has not been; it has been in the interest of the Labour Party. It is just one more round of a record that has gone round and round: “paintergate”, “speedgate”, and “Doone-gate”. I ask members to remember the attitude of the Prime Minister then. She said: “by definition the Prime Minister cannot leak.”
Today we have found out that by definition Labour cannot misuse public money, because it thinks the money belongs to it, and because it thinks it is so morally superior in its use of public money that any use of it, by definition, must be right. Of course, it is not. When one strips back the technicalities, the legislation, the convenient legal opinions, and the procedural manipulation, one finds that Labour believes, deep in its heart, that it is entitled to make any use of the tax derived from the hard-earned incomes of New Zealanders—and in Labour’s interest, not in the public interest. We have unmasked an ugly and a fierce sense of entitlement. The Labour Party is willing to do anything, say anything, and bully anyone in order to defend that sense of entitlement. In fact, if one had listened to the debate on this issue over recent months, one would think the wronged party was the Labour Party. One would think Labour was being unjustly attacked. One would think that Labour was the one whose money had been put up in good faith and misused. One would think Labour was the injured party.
We have seen that deep and ugly sense of entitlement in the attacks on the Auditor-General.
Hon MURRAY McCULLY (National—East Coast Bays) Link to this
The bill, and the circumstances in which the House finds itself tonight, should invite members opposite to reflect. Indeed, it should make all members in this House reflect, because we in this Parliament have a unique role. We have unique powers, and with those unique powers go some unique responsibilities. Yet, today, we find ourselves not just legislating under urgency; we find ourselves legislating about ourselves.
I invite members opposite, and those who want to prop them up in this Chamber, to apply a very simple test. It is this: if the Auditor-General’s report concerned the actions of private citizens or a private organisation, or even of a Government department or local authority, and that organisation or local authority had breached the terms of the Public Finance Act, would we be here tonight rushing a bill through all stages, on the first available parliamentary day, to address that matter? Would we be here tonight, under urgency, using the extraordinary powers of this House to rectify the matter, on the first available day? Would we be trying to avoid the select committee process, by which every other measure that goes before this House is subject to scrutiny? No, we would not. Would we be trying to avoid any form of public scrutiny over the normal parliamentary timetable of a bill? No, we would not. Would we see the lack of consultation with the parties that are affected by the law that is sitting on the Table of the House, because parties on this side have not been subjected to any form of consultation, in the way that any ordinary New Zealand citizen or organisation would enjoy that consultation about a measure that touched their affairs? No, we would not see it happen, were it not for the fact that this legislation suits the affairs of the New Zealand Labour Party.
Today, as a consequence of that fact, we see that this Government has no hesitation in hijacking the legislative process, hijacking the parliamentary process and the parliamentary timetable, through urgency; in reducing the normally non-partisan role of the Minister responsible for the Parliamentary Service, and of the officers who serve in that service, to the role of pawns of the Labour Party and their mates—all to serve the narrow, partisan interests of the Labour Party and its friends. That is an abuse of this Parliament. It is an abuse of the legislative process. It is an abuse of the confidence of the New Zealand public, who elected the representatives who sit in this Parliament. It is an abuse of that confidence.
Worst of all, these are actions that are driven by a motive that should never be allowed to rear its ugly head in this Chamber. It is naked, shameless, unprincipled self-interest. It is the very thing that we commit ourselves, at the commencement of each day of sitting, that we will put aside, in the interests of the public we are here to serve. That is what is driving this Labour Government in taking this bill through the House under urgency tonight.
This measure has some important implications. First of all, as a result, we will see State funding of political parties, in a significant way, introduced into the New Zealand law. That is something most New Zealanders are opposed to; something that New Zealanders will have no say about, because we are doing this without consultation with them, and, in many ways, without their knowledge. We certainly do so without their consent.
This is also bad legislation because it places politicians above the law. We are simply passing this measure because, unlike any other class of New Zealanders, we can. We know that it is wrong, and members opposite know that it is wrong. That is why, of course, we are doing it under urgency. The way in which this measure is being handled politicises the Parliamentary Service Commission, which has now some decades of history running this institution. It politicises that institution, in a way that members opposite, along with others, will learn to regret over time. And that is not a threat; that is a promise. There is no going back from that.
Let us be clear about one thing, as this measure goes through the House in the space of these 2 days. Some parties in this Parliament, despite what they might say, have absolutely no intention of paying back the money they have unlawfully taken from the public of New Zealand. That is the reason for this bill. This bill is being passed so that those parties will not have any legal obligation to pay back the money they have taken unlawfully. The New Zealand First Party knows full well that it votes for this measure tonight so that it will not have to pay the money back. It is galling to sit in this Chamber and hear Mr Brown tell the House that the New Zealand First Party will meet all of its lawful obligations, as it participates in passing, under urgency, a bill that will ensure that New Zealand First has no lawful obligations, at all. Even Mr Brown can work that out.
There is only one reason for the rush, for the urgency, for the avoidance of public scrutiny, for the avoidance of a select committee process—that is, because some people in this Parliament have no intention of meeting the obligation they have to the New Zealand taxpayer to pay the money back. By the end of this week they will have no legal obligation to do so.
We do not have State funding of political parties in New Zealand, and there is a reason for that. The public is opposed to it. The public has always been opposed to it. That is why, for three successive elections, the Labour Party has hidden the fact that taxpayers have picked up the tab for the centrepiece of its election campaign—the Labour Party’s pledge card. Members on this side are pretty suspicious; those of us who have been in the Parliament for a while are deeply suspicious about the Labour Party, and we think all sorts of terrible things about Labour from time to time. But it did not cross our minds—it never ever crossed our minds—that the Labour Party would have the sheer gall to use taxpayers’ funds to purchase the pledge card, which has been the centrepiece of not just the last election campaign but the last three election campaigns.
Members of the press gallery have asked us, almost incredulously: “How can it be that you people haven’t got on to this before?”. We have had to give them the honest answer that we simply did not think that even the Labour Party could stoop so low as to use taxpayers’ money to fund the Labour Party pledge card. We did not ever think it was possible. Nor did many of the institutions that guide our society think that it was appropriate. It is deeply revealing, as a result of the revelations we have seen in recent days, that the Parliamentary Service officers did not think it was the right thing to do, either. Those officers paid over the money they were obliged to only because they had a gun to their head from Heather Simpson. They were told absolutely: “Pay up, or you know what consequences will be coming your way.” By the end of this week, the Labour Party pledge card will be able to lawfully be paid for with taxpayers’ money. That is the fundamental change in the law that clause 7 of this bill will make.
I conclude by regretting most sincerely the shabby politicisation of the Parliamentary Service Commission that has seen this bill come to the House. Normally when we pass a bill we have procedures that ensure the bill sits on the Table for a while so that all of the parties that will be affected by it will know what will happen to them, that they will have their ability to have a say, that we have a select committee process, that we have transparency, and that we pass bills over weeks and months, not over hours and days. That is because transparency and accountability to the public are fundamental principles of the way in which this place operates.
But because of the naked self-interest of the Labour Party, all of that is being put to one side to pass a bill that suits certain members of this House. That is an outrage. It is an outrage that the Minister responsible for the Parliamentary Service Commission has been prepared to engage with the Minister of Finance in that process and make her officers do the same. She has sold down the river members of Parliament on this side of the House, and she will never ever regain our confidence as a consequence. She will never regain the confidence of members on this side of the House in relation to the administration of the Parliament. Her use of Jack Hodder and Chapman Tripp, who foolishly lent their names to this enterprise, is very much a matter for regret. That was a shoddy piece of work on their part. Even the Attorney-General will know that that is the case.
The New Zealand public are not silly. They know what is going on here. They have worked it out. This is one giant nail in the coffin of this Government. These people will be down the road, and the sooner the better.
A party vote was called for on the question,
That the Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill be now read a first time.
Ayes 61
Noes 54
Abstentions 6
Bill read a first time.