4. SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) Link to this
to the Minister of Corrections
Does he have confidence in his department; if so, why?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Minister of Corrections) Link to this
Yes, but I have made it crystal clear to the chief executive that he is responsible for making further improvements, with clear lines of accountability.
Can the Minister confirm that under section 172 of the Corrections Act a security monitor should have been appointed to oversee Chubb’s contract and make regular reports to the chief executive; and if a monitor was appointed, what concerns did he or she express to the chief executive about the safety of prisoner transport?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
I am aware that that is a requirement. That issue is covered in the Ombudsman’s report. I do not have the details of the advice provided, but I know that the advice provided by the Ombudsman’s report will be taken on board, changes will be made, and we will have an improved system in place.
Hon Phil GoffDoes the Minister have any report advising him on the accuracy of the allegation made by Simon Power of corruption involving inmates being required to work on a correction officer’s yacht; if so, what does that report say?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
In similar fashion to many claims made in the House by the member Simon Power, investigations, although not complete, have not identified any 40-foot yacht. In fact, the only boat that has been identified is a 13-foot plywood dinghy that was being repaired in the prison workshop for use by the Sea Scouts.
Can the Minister confirm that not only did Chubb write to the department in September 2005 raising concerns about prisoners’ inability to communicate with staff in vans in a medical emergency or assault, but also the security monitor backed up these concerns twice in reports to the chief executive in October and November 2005, meaning the chief executive would have been told about the problem at least three times in the year before Liam Ashley’s death, yet nothing changed?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
In the House yesterday that member claimed that the Department of Corrections had misled the Office of the Ombudsmen in providing information. That concerned me, so I went to the State Services Commissioner and asked him to investigate. The commissioner has come back to me with advice on that. He has spoken to Mr John Belgrave and to Mr Mel Smith, who have told me that they do not consider that they have been misled by the department. In fact, they both assure me that this section in the report was not intended to imply that the department had been misleading the Ombudsmen about those matters.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is all very interesting, except that my question related to the chief executive’s knowledge of the monitoring regarding prisoner transport safety. The Minister did not address that question in any way, shape, or form.
Madam SPEAKERHon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
I am very aware that those issues have been referred to in the report. That member can read the report. I am not prepared to accept accusations made by that member in this House that have been proven today to be completely inaccurate.
Can the Minister confirm the allegations—unlike the inaccurate allegations made by Simon Power—that prison labour has been misused, that in fact eight staff were dismissed from Rangipō Prison for requiring inmates to panel beat their cars inside the prison, but that that happened in 1999, under a National Government; and did the then Minister, Nick Smith, ever offer to resign over it?
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
I seek leave of the House to table my ministerial warrant as Minister of Corrections, which shows that I was not Minister at that time.
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
I am aware of that and many other incidents through the 1990s under that Government. The difference is that those Ministers did nothing. I am insisting that change occurs, and that is up to the chief executive to carry out.
How does he reconcile his statement made in the House on Tuesday that—in addition to the Chubb letter that was not acted on—“The report also identifies other areas where there was a breakdown in communications.”, with the emphatic denial by Barry Matthews that a lack of communication was “a major ground of criticism for central management”, as the Ombudsman found?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
I have stated in this House before that I accept there was a breakdown in communication. There has been a head office restructure. The chief executive has to carry out the changes, the improvements, to ensure that no further breakdown in communication occurs within the corrections system.
Does he stand by his statements made in the House yesterday that he will “investigate and clarify the points that have been raised in the report”, because although the information provided to the Ombudsman was accurate, in his view, “it may not have included all the information they wanted.”; if so, is he now saying he will be appealing or relitigating, or does he simply refuse to accept the findings of the Ombudsman?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
Yes. The information provided to me and passed to the Ombudsman was accurate, but, in my opinion, incomplete. Therefore, I considered it plausible that the Ombudsman may have drawn incomplete conclusions. I too was concerned about the accusations made. That is why I asked the State Services Commissioner to investigate. He did so last night, and today he has reported back to me, having spoken to both Ombudsmen—John Belgrave and Mel Smith—that they both told me they do not consider they had been misled by the Department of Corrections, at all.
Can he confirm that the Ombudsman’s report into his department uses the words: “unacceptable”, 11 times; “unsatisfactory”, 38 times; and “saddened”, once; and when Parliament’s watchdog uses such language, what does he think that says about his department?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
I have read the recommendations. I have read the report. Unlike that member, I have not had the time to count every word in the report. I accept the recommendations. We have already moved on the majority of them. We are working through some of them with the Ombudsman to make change, to give effect to change, to improve the transportation system across the corrections system.
Nandor TanczosWhat advice did his department provide him, or did he receive through any other channel, from traffic safety experts, on his proposal to lock all prisoners’ hands to their waists when they are transported in vehicles—and which the House notes are not fitted with seatbelts—especially in light of the fact that the proposal directly contradicts the considered recommendations in the Ombudsman’s report?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
Some of the advice I have received on restraints states that in utilising restraints it may be possible to safely utilise seatbelts. That is one of the issues that we are looking at in the implementation process. However, I will not guarantee that seatbelts will be used, because in the past they had been abused and used by prisoners to harm other prisoners or harm themselves. That is why they have not been used.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have warned members before about multiple supplementary questions. I restricted mine to ask specifically about advice from traffic safety experts. The Minister talked about whether seatbelts would or would not be fitted. I did not ask about that; I asked about advice from traffic safety experts
I think the Minister actually addressed the question. I listened really carefully to what was said. As members know, they cannot have a specific answer to their question. They cannot predetermine the answer.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
If there are not handcuffs or manacling to the prisoner’s body or torso in the vans—which, as has been suggested by the Ombudsman, have escape hatches—how long exactly does he think prisoners will remain in the van when it comes to a red light or a crossing?
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR Link to this
Not very long.
I seek leave to table a letter from the State Services Commission to me, pointing out that the Ombudsmen considered that they were in no way misled by the Department of Corrections.