12. SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) Link to this
to the Minister for Courts
Does he stand by his statement that “we’re doing a great job collecting fines”?
Hon RICK BARKER (Minister for Courts) Link to this
Yes, of course I do and I want to thank that member for the question. The courts are responsible for collecting fines on behalf of more than 100 issuing authorities. That is 25 times more than the four issuing authorities there were in 1990. More money is being collected by courts in total dollars and this is more in proportion to the amount of fines lodged with courts than ever before. I have also implemented a number of new initiatives including the collection of fines at airports, which has already netted $92,696 in overdue reparation fines from travellers in the first few months of operation. We are doing heaps and we are doing a very good job.
How can the Minister claim that he is doing a great job collecting fines when half a million people owe fines that date back further than a year, including 73,000 that are over 10 years old, and 7,000 that date back to 1987 when the Berlin Wall was still intact and Labour had a flat-tax policy?
The member will recall that the National Government was in office for 9 years, and it could have traced them then. I can tell the member some very interesting facts. In 2001-02, $113 million of fines money was collected. In 2005-06, $206.9 million—that is almost a doubling of it—was collected. At that same time, the outstanding amount in 2001-02 was 79 percent and the outstanding amount now is 54 percent. Everything that should be up is going up. We are collecting more and the amount in proportion of what is outstanding is going down. We are doing a good job.
Martin GallagherI have seen reports that say the courts have collected $10.8 million in 2004, and $10.4 million, then $11.6 million this year on, for example, the “Confiscated Car Club”. I have already said to Parliament that the amount we are collecting is going up in absolute terms—that is, in dollar terms—and the amount that is outstanding is dropping in proportion to that. We are doing a very good job.
Can he confirm that these historic fines are often for significant amounts, ranging from $3,000 from 1987 and some for over $100,000 dating back to 1992, and since he is doing such a great job letting offenders from the 1980s off the hook, has he investigated the possibility of using private debt collection agencies to recover these fines instead?
That member’s statistics show that no one gets off the hook. The amount that defaulters owe is outstanding. There are two problems with this: firstly, on occasions, is identifying the people; and, secondly, is finding where they are. In terms of 1987, the 9 years the National Party was in power, these people could not be tracked down. The trail has gone even colder now. We track everybody. No one gets off the hook. I tell the member that we have, on occasions, engaged private investigators, and we have introduced a new system. For example, for the top fines defaulters owing more than $50,000, under the new system I introduced in June 2004, 55 were identified and now only 16 still owe more than $50,000. We are slowly but surely getting on top of it.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Are the court systems sufficient to collect a fine of $100,000 if, in fact, one results from the National Party paying its bills?
Of course, we have sufficient systems. The warning is clear to those people who do not pay the fines at airports. If the National Party members did not pay their fines they would be staying in New Zealand.
Can he confirm that, in addition to fines, there are over 18,000 reparations to victims that date back further than a year, including 16 offenders who owe victims over $100,000 each dating back to 1997, and what does he say to the 284 victims who are still owed money from 1987—in one case over $20,000 after 19 years waiting for resolution?
The situation is simply this. In 2001-02 there was $31 million overdue in reparation. This was 70 percent of the total. In 2005-06 this has now fallen to $27 million and is 43 percent of the total. This Government has got tougher on people, and I will give the member some other simple statistics. In 2001-02 there were 41,000 attachment orders put against people’s pay. In 2005-06 there were 203,208—a 500 percent increase. We have got on with the job.
Can he confirm that the biggest fine defaulter is a man who owes $1.8 million, but lives in Brisbane, and in light of the fact that a newspaper journalist was able to track down this man driving his Mercedes earlier in the year, why has he not sought cooperation from the Australian authorities to get the money from him, and how does the Minister think this squares off with his earlier comments this afternoon that “We’re getting tough.”?
My staff have known for a long time where that gentleman lives. The man got fined for breaches of the Customs and Excise Act for importing wound-back odometers that Murray McCully refused to do anything about at the time. We have made approaches to Australia, and the simple fact is that the Australians will not agree to the extradition of such a person. But the message is clear to that gentleman. Should he come back to New Zealand he will be arrested at the border.
Can he confirm that a Wellington woman who owes more than $145,000 in fines and reparations for theft from her employer and traffic offences is serving a 2-year sentence on home detention, but has not been contacted by the Ministry of Justice to arrange repayment, despite the fact that her whereabouts on home detention should, presumably, be fairly easy to establish, and what does he say to the woman’s former employer who is still waiting for the money?
I can confirm to the member that data matching between the Department of Corrections and the Ministry of Justice has improved and we have better data links. I also say to the member that the number of people who get a prison sentence in lieu of paying their fines has also increased. In 2002-03 there were 140 people who got a prison sentence as an alternative, and in 2005-06 there were 293. So, in fact, the system is getting tougher on people.
Ron MarkCan the Minister, given his statements on getting tough and data matching, explain why on the one hand the Government prevented the expansion of information sharing between the Collections Contact Centre, the Inland Revenue Department, and Work and Income to improve the collection of outstanding fines as recommended by New Zealand First during the select committee stage of the Courts and Criminal Matters Bill, yet on the other hand has not fast tracked the expansion of information sharing to track down people overseas with student loans who are not convicted criminals?
As I said to the member during that particular debate, we already have data matching between the Collections Contract Centre and, for example, the Ministry of Social Development. In fact, if he goes through the attachment orders that I spoke about previously—saying that 41,000 were issued in 2001-02, and 203,208 in 2005-06, which is a 500 percent increase—he would see that there has also been an increase in the number of deduction notices against banks. In 2001-02 there were 154, and in 2005-06 there are now 4,858. These are very impressive figures.