5. KATHERINE RICH (National) Link to this
to the Minister of Education
Does he stand by his statement that “86,000 children will definitely get 20 free hours under Labour”; if so, why?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) Link to this
Yes. I will announce the initial take-up of 20 hours’ free early childhood education for 3 to 4-year-olds on Monday, as has always been planned. I expect that over the next year the numbers benefiting will climb as more and more centres sign up because New Zealand families recognise that this policy is an excellent one, as does the member’s leader.
How far short of his 20 free hours target will he be on Monday, and can we assume that the numbers of 3 and 4-year-olds are nowhere near the 86,000 to 92,000 to whom his Government promised 20 free hours, because if the numbers were remotely near those targets, he is just the sort of Minister who would be trumpeting that success from the rooftops right now?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
It is worth drawing the member’s attention to the fact that she has asked these questions for a number of months and has been given the same answer for a number of months. That answer is that we are optimistic about the number of centres that will come in on 1 July, we are optimistic about the number of young people who will be in, and that from 1 July, which is the beginning of this policy, the numbers will climb steadily over the following year. That is what we have said, that is what we expect, that is what we have said for months, that is what we are still saying, and that is what will happen on Monday.
Moana MackeyWhat is the benefit to early childhood education centres of the Labour-led Government’s policy of 20 hours’ free early childhood education?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
In the past, centres have had to rely on parents for fees, donations, and fund-raising. This policy will give them security and certainty of funding. On Monday centres offering 20 hours’ per week free education will receive an advance payment covering the next 4 months, and the sum will be around $105,000 for an average centre. By contrast, National offers complete uncertainty. Paula Bennett told Radio New Zealand that National would not offer the policy. Katherine Rich is quoted in the Christchurch Press today as saying that National never said it would scrap it, and has not decided what to do. It looks to me like a case of aspirational John Key versus bean counter Bill English.
Hon Brian Donnelly Link to this
Would the Minister agree that if the objective of the free early childhood education policy is to increase early childhood education participation rates, the $109 million would have been better targeted to children 2 years old and under, rather than to 3 and 4-year-olds, whose participation rates are already much greater than 90 percent?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
I think the member is indicating where policies like this might go over the years. We have to start somewhere; 3 to 4-year-olds, who are moving towards the age of starting school, seem the best place to start with this policy. But I think the member is raising the fact that probably, as time goes by, people will be looking for the expansion of the policy to different age groups.
When the first payment for 20 free hours is due to be direct-credited into accounts on Monday, why does he keep up the pretence that he has no idea how many centres have opted in, or how many kids are actually going to receive 20 free hours; does he seriously think this House believes that the Ministry of Education can undertake such a complicated financial transaction without having any idea of the numbers?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
I have never kept up such a pretence. The fact of life is that I have been saying to the member for some time that she should just relax. The ministry has done a great job of administering this policy. The sector has responded very well to it. We have always planned—for Mr Nick Smith, who will not stop yelling—that the announcement will be on Monday. That is what we have always planned, and that is what we will do, so I ask the member just to relax and to get the news when it is due.
Does he understand that when he said that 86,000 New Zealand kids would get 20 free hours come 1 July, most parents thought that their kids would actually receive it. And what is with this inane coo cooing that the Opposition should relax; who the hell does he think he is—Frankie Goes to Hollywood?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
The stress is starting to show—that is all I can say. At no time have I said there would be 86,000 kids involved on 1 July. When that figure was put into the public arena, that was the number of 3 to 4-year-olds enrolled in early childhood centres. That is why that figure was used at that time. I say to the member that I have said a number of times over many months that when the policy rolls out we will give the updated figures, and I think that is a reasonable thing to do.
He likes Frankie Goes to Hollywood? When will he just relax, focus on his own policy, and admit that come Monday nowhere near the 92,000 children whom he told New Zealand parents back in 2005 would get 20 hours’ free early childhood education will get it, and that his policy of 20 hours free is just a fraud?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
I do not think I could be more relaxed if I tried. What I have always said on the way through this policy is that on 1 July it will start, and there will be a good muster of centres and of children. We are optimistic about that. Then the number will steadily climb. I would say that I think the number will be a little lower than it might have been, because the campaign to confuse people—
Nandor TanczosI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My apologies to the Minister. It is simply that I am finding it extremely difficult to follow a word that the Minister is saying, because of the level of noise.
Madam SPEAKERI agree with the member. I do not want to rule that we should have the answer in silence; that seems to be too much of a provocation. But would members please just keep the level down. Would the Minister please respond.
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
In summary, I have established who is relaxed and who is not, and I was moving on to say that we have always made it very clear that 1 July was a start date, that there would be a good, optimistic number of centres and children in the policy, and that it will climb steadily from there. I did note that I think the campaign against this policy has meant that on 1 July some parents will not be getting their $60, $70, or $80 back from the policy, because of the campaign against it. No doubt, once they see it rolling out, they will roll into the policy, as well.
Paula BennettWhen he said yesterday that kindergartens have never been free, because they have always asked for donations and optional charges, was he finally acknowledging that his 20 hours free policy is not free, because centres can ask for donations and optional charges?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
For the member’s information, I was quoting the Waikato Kindergarten Association, which was pointing out that there always have been donations, there has always been a fee, and there always has been the fund-raising process that goes around it. The big benefit for kindergartens is that they now get a guaranteed sum of money; the average centre will get $105,000 on 1 July—advanced funding for 4 months. That is stability and that is certainty.
How can the Minister continue to argue that 20 hours will be free, when most people will end up paying for their free hours through optional charges, and when he himself said yesterday that kindergartens had never been free, because people paid donations and optional charges; and does he finally understand that when one is paying for something, it is not free?
Hon STEVE MAHAREY Link to this
I can only repeat, because the member seems to have missed it, that the quote yesterday was from the Waikato Kindergarten Association, which was pointing out the history of kindergarten funding. I thank the member for giving me the opportunity to repeat that the 20 hours free policy applies to the regulated level of 20 hours’ early childhood education. This is a hugely popular policy, it is hugely popular around the country, and it is one that I know that the National Policy is looking forward to flip-flopping on and supporting as soon as it can.