9. ANNE TOLLEY (National—East Coast) Link to this
to the Minister of Education
Does he have confidence in the Ministry of Education; if so, why?
Why, after 3 years of complaining to the Ministry of Education, $24,000 being spent on consultants, three different plans being submitted, and 25 meetings with officials, is Tiaho School in Wairoa still in such a state of disrepair that classrooms leak, there is no boiler to heat those leaking classrooms, sewage floods the kids’ playing areas when it rains, and the kids are so disgusted by the smell of their bathrooms that they will not go anywhere near them?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
The situation at Tiaho School is not acceptable. I am advised that the delays are due in part to lengthy negotiations between the school and the ministry over the scope and cost of a wider school redevelopment project, and they were caused, at least in part, by the inability of the school board to source contractors to get and assess the necessary information. The health and safety issues were first drawn to the attention of the Minister’s office on 14 June. At that stage, neither the local council nor the district health board was aware of the sewage issues at the school. Nevertheless, the Minister of Education has today phoned and written to the school to express his concern about the situation, and he has directed the ministry to give immediate priority to addressing the critical health and safety issues. As much of this work as possible will be completed over the school break, which begins on Friday.
Why was the plan that the school submitted several weeks ago— with assistance from the ministry’s local Hawke’s Bay office—for $1.5 million worth of work to make the school a safe and healthy learning environment rejected; and in light of the Minister’s statement, can he confirm the comment of Paul Burke from the Ministry of Education on television last night that the ministry would not be signing off a cheque for improvements until the end of July, which means another 4 weeks of sewage, leaky buildings, no boiler, and disgusting bathrooms, in the middle of winter?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
If the member had given the Minister the courtesy of listening to my answer, she would know that her latest question is just stupid.
Gerry BrownleeI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I think you might want to consider whether the Minister did address the question. Simply abusing the questioner hardly constitutes addressing the question. The content of the question was well-thought-out, it was a reasonable question, and it would be reasonable to expect the Minister to attempt to answer it.
Madam SPEAKERPlease be seated. I listened very carefully. In fact, the second question contained the answer that the Minister had given as to when it was. But if the Minister would repeat his answer, we can then make some progress.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. With all due respect, the second question pointed to a contradiction between what the Minister had said and what had been said on TV. The Minister should at least have the courtesy to address that.
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
I will try to make it simple for the member. The Minister has directed the ministry to make as much progress as possible during the school holidays. The school holidays—for members who are out of touch—start on Friday. One of the differences between the approach taken by Nick Smith, who was ruled by the ministry, and the approach taken by this Government is that when we say “jump”, it will.
Hon Mark BurtonHon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
Yes, I do. The ministry grossly underestimated the popularity of the Labour-led Government’s policy of 20 hours’ free early childhood education. The latest information shows that funded hours have increased by 7.5 percent since September 2007, and that requires unplanned Government investment of well over $20 million. Meanwhile, I note that the National Party’s latest position is that it would dump that policy of 20 hours’ free education.
Rodney HideI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I raise it under Standing Order 377. It is something we have seen from the Minister answering for the Minister of Education. Ministers are not allowed to answer a question with “arguments, inferences, imputations, epithets or ironical expressions”. We have seen a lot of that today from Ministers, but to suggest that someone asking a question is stupid surely is out of order, given Standing Order 377.
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I want to make it clear that I was wrongly advised that the Minister’s office had first been told on 14 June. I am now advised that it was on 24 June.
What sorts of systems and procedures does his ministry have, when a school without a viable form of heating, with sewage on the kids’ playing fields and in their courtyards, with leaking classrooms with walls that one can poke one’s finger through, and with toilets that are so stench-ridden that kids will not go near them, has to jump through hoop after hoop after bureaucratic hoop for 3 years before it gets the money—and only after it went on national television to broadcast its plight?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
I repeat that the first occasion that the school brought the sewage issue to the attention of the Minister’s office, the local council, or the district health board was 24 June this year.
Why did the Minister wait 10 days after receiving a letter from the board of trustees, and why has he not visited this school, which is in such dire straits; is it that the Government is much more interested in spending the thick end of a billion dollars on a rail system than it is interested in the learning of kids at a school with running sewage on the fields, no heating, leaking buildings, and an electricity system that blows out when the school tries to run heaters?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
That is a really interesting question, and I just wonder whether, if the electorate had a half-competent local MP, it would have been drawn—
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
Who is the local MP? Anne Tolley. I wonder whether, if the electorate had a half-competent local MP, the matter would have been drawn to the Minister’s attention. The other point I will make is that I will take that comment as support from that member for the Toll NZ plan to close the Napier-Gisborne line.
How many more meetings will there have to be, how many more plans will have to be submitted, how much more red tape will the school have to wade through, and how many more hoops will this school of 240 children have to jump through before it gets money from the ministry to fix its leaking classrooms, its broken boiler, its faulty electricity system, and its overflowing sewerage pipes, which are a health hazard, or is the Minister saying that any school with a problem with sewage need only ring either the Minister or Television One?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
I have indicated to the member on a number of occasions that the very effective Minister of Education, upon the matter being drawn to his attention, caused the problem to be fixed as soon as possible. If she was half as effective as he is, she would have told the Minister about the issue a couple of years ago, when she became the local MP—if it was an issue then.
Judith CollinsHon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
Most members of Parliament visit schools in their electorates when they have issues, and they bring those issues to the Minister’s attention if they are not satisfied with the—
No, please be seated. The member was on her feet to, I thought, raise a point of order, before the Minister had finished answering the question. I remind members that however anxious they may be to ask or answer a question, the courteous thing to do is to wait for the person speaking to finish.
My apologies, Madam Speaker; I thought he was just insulting me. Is the Minister now saying that the three separate sets of plans that this board has submitted to the ministry—it having worked on them with the Hawke’s Bay district office of the ministry over the last 3 years—and the $24,000 that the board has spent on consultants have not been considered, and that all it took to have the drains fixed was for the school go on national television last night with its problem, which resulted in the Minister telling his ministry to act; is that the way that education services in this country are going to be run?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
No; I was complimenting the member when I made the earlier comments.
Any further supplementary questions? We move to question No. 10, the Hon Tariana Turia. [ Interruption] The member asking a question is entitled to members having the courtesy to listen.
Dail JonesI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. How long are you going to put up with being insulted by Gerry Brownlee while he is sitting in his seat? You made a ruling, and you asked for order so that the honourable co-leader of the Māori Party could ask her question. We can hear insults being thrown in your direction. I ask you to do something about it, with respect.
No. I know that it has been a long question time, and I would just ask members to show a little courtesy to each other, so that we can get through it.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If I have created the impression in the House that I have been disrespectful to you, I offer you my apologies. But your presiding over a series of answers from that Minister that were very, very personally and insultingly directed at another member does not help order in this House.
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
I think challenging a member to be an effective local MP is not insulting.
It is Ministers who are held to account in this House during this particular time of the day, and it is Ministers who should be giving answers to constituent MPs’ questions asked by a spokesperson. It is that Minister who could not answer.
I understand the member’s point. I have said this before but I will say it again. If members want different answers and a definition of that, then I invite members to please change the Standing Orders. At the moment, a Minister must just address a question. I listen to the questions. Often they are long and involve several thoughts and ideas. Members and Ministers are judged on the questions and the answers that are given. That will be the case here.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask you to give a considered ruling as to the Minister’s answer to the question from my colleague Anne Tolley about the desperate situation of a school in her electorate. We had an answer that told us about the member’s pedigree, and the last two answers made no reference at all to the question. How does that possibly comply with Standing Order 377, which requires that answers must be given in the public interest? I am not necessarily asking that you give an immediate ruling, but I do think you have a duty to Parliament to ensure that question time is relevant; otherwise, it effectively results in a debacle of which none of us can be proud.