6. GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) Link to this
to the Minister for the Environment
Did the Chief Executive of the Ministry for the Environment ever ask him for his opinion on the appointment of Madeleine Setchell as the communications manager of the ministry; if so, what did he say?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for the Environment) Link to this
No; I had one conversation with the chief executive relating to this matter before it was resolved. That conversation happened when he drew me aside in the context of a meeting about other issues and advised me there was an issue he was dealing with involving the partner of a National Party staff member, and that he had formed a preliminary view that there was a conflict of interest and that he was working with the State Services Commission to manage that issue. I noted two things: first, that this was clearly an employment issue and therefore his responsibility alone to manage, and, secondly, that from the point of view of my office I would likely be less free and frank in meetings with such a person. That was a statement of the obvious.
What miraculous events have occurred overnight for the Minister to have this greater recollection of the meetings held on 29 May that he could not remember yesterday, and has he also perhaps forgotten that he did say to Mr Hugh Logan: “I won’t have that woman in my office.”?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
No miraculous events have occurred and I did not make that statement.
Does the Minister expect us to believe that after the flurry of phone calls between his office and Hugh Logan’s office on 28 May, which caused Mr Logan to drop everything, conduct an urgent inquiry, and involve the State Services Commission, that at a meeting the next day the Minister was neither asked for, nor offered his opinion on the actual appointment of Madeleine Setchell beyond the scant comments made by the Minister in the House today?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
For the benefit of the member, let me run through the chronology again. I was not aware, when my adviser began his inquiry, but I now know that it was Monday, 28 May. I was first informed of the relationship later on 28 May when it had been confirmed by the chief executive. That there was formally the possibility of a conflict of interest was notified to me after that date personally by the chief executive.
When the Minister said to Mr Logan that he would be able to be less than free and frank should Ms Setchell be in any meetings in his office, what conclusion could Mr Logan reach other than the Minister was instructing him to dismiss Ms Setchell?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
The member has misrepresented my quote. I said I would likely be less free and frank. I am sure the member understands fully that that is a statement of the obvious. He would be less likely to conduct a conversation as frankly with a member on this side of the House as he would with his own colleagues, one would assume.
Why did the Minister not simply make that admission—this new revelation—right at the start of this particular issue and the investigation into it; and is the Minister surprised that when Mr Logan was asked by the media if the Minister had said to him: “I won’t have that woman in my office.”, he could not answer that question for himself with a simple “No”?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
There are about five questions there. Can I repeat that I did not make that statement.
Can we assume from Mr Logan’s refusal to deny the Minister told him: “I won’t have that woman in my office.” with a simple one-word answer, that it is a fact the Minister did instruct exactly along those lines, and could any other conclusion be reached from what the Minister has told the House today?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
No, members cannot make that assumption, and other conclusions can definitely be reached. These are the facts of the matter.
Can the Minister assure the House that if Mr Logan were to speak in a free, full, and frank manner, and tell the media what the Minister said to him, he would keep his job?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
I can assure the House that I have confidence in the professionalism of Mr Logan and I have no concerns in that respect.
Can the Minister assure the House that there will be no adverse consequences for any one either in his office or in the Ministry for the Environment who blows the whistle on what the Minister actually said to Mr Logan?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
I am not the employer, either in my office or in the Ministry for the Environment.
Can the Minister give the House an assurance that he has not, in the past, pressured any Government department to remove staff because of his perceptions about their political connections?
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We know that it would be inappropriate to do so. We are asking whether the Minister is prepared to say he has not done that before.
Madam SPEAKERThe Minister is answering as the Minister for the Environment. That is his ministerial responsibility in this context. I also remind members that they cannot require a specific answer to their questions. In that instance the Minister addressed the question, though it may have been outside his ministerial responsibility.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
In relation to the question about the employment of Mr Logan, has the Minister received any report that when Mr Brownlee was asked whether Mr Logan would have a job were there to be a change of Government, he refused to answer yes?
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE Link to this
I think it is one of the ironies of this issue that the behaviour of Mr Logan and, I believe, my staff has been honourable, and that reflection cannot be conveyed about the behaviour of those members opposite.