5. TE URUROA FLAVELL (Māori Party—Waiariki) Link to this
to the Minister for the Environment
What assurance can iwi have as a result of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report on the Levin landfill that waste disposal policies will not create new environmental hazards?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for the Environment) Link to this
I regret I am unable to answer the member’s question, because, until 2 o’clock today, a copy of the report was not available to me.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Does the Minister believe that the concerns of Muaūpoko and Ngāti Pareraukawa were ever properly recognised, concerns which they raised over many decades about the longstanding pollution caused by the sewage discharge that has compromised the health of their streams, affected their marine environment, and poisoned their tuna; and what practical difference will the report make to tangata whenua?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
Again, I regret I cannot give an informed answer to the question. The normal—
Gerry BrownleeI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It is a somewhat perplexing situation to have a Minister stand up and say he cannot answer a question that was lodged this morning, after some 2½ hours—at least—of his knowing that the question was to be asked, when, in fact, the lodgment process requires documentation to support the question. The question refers directly to the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report on the Levin landfill. Clearly, the report was sighted this morning when the question was lodged. What is it about the Minister’s office that makes it so useless that it cannot get hold of this report to give him a bit of a briefing so that he can come to the House and say more than: “I’m sorry but I can’t answer that.”?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
That air-laden load of bluster had absolutely nothing to do with the Minister’s answer. The Minister made it clear that the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment had not sent a copy of the report to his office. It may strike Mr Brownlee as very, very strange, but Mr Mallard and other Ministers have a tendency to read reports before answering questions about them.
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker, I can tell the House that it is my understanding, from the brief time I have had available to consider the matter, that this report relates to the Horizons Regional Council and the local district council, not to the Ministry for the Environment. That is the reason why the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has not sent me a copy. Of course, the report was not tabled until 2 o’clock today, and, therefore, was not generally available until that time.
That is just not a credible position for the Minister to take. He knew at 11 o’clock this morning that he had to answer a question about this report. Is he honestly telling us that he sat behind his desk and said: “Oh well, I haven’t got the report, so I can’t answer any questions on it.”? Would we not expect a Minister of the Crown to work out that it might be a good idea to ask for it?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
We have a process in this Parliament—the member will get to it at some stage—and it is that we have parliamentary officers who table reports. It is their choice to give reports to people beforehand, if they are affected. In this particular case, we understand, from checking with the Office of the Clerk, that the report relates to a regional council and a district council, and not to my ministry. That is why I do not have the report.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I understand the Minister’s explanation. Although I am sure that Mr Brownlee pursued the matter in a far better way than I can, I would like to seek the leave of the House to hold over our question until tomorrow. We submitted the question on the basis that the Minister had the report; the rest of the questions are almost irrelevant in this context.
Madam SPEAKERI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I wonder whether you might consider your own authority in this matter. It seems to me to be fundamentally unacceptable for the Minister to say that because the relationship between his ministry and the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment is very bad, he cannot pick up the phone and ask for a report a couple of hours before it is tabled in Parliament—bearing in mind that we are looking at changes to the Standing Orders that will mean that documents are often given out before they are tabled and published in Parliament. You, Madam Speaker, are in a position to be able to say that this question should be answered, and that it can be answered tomorrow. You can rule in that way.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
I do not know why Opposition members are now trying to filibuster in the House, their having said that Government members were trying to avoid any votes! The question the member now raises would set a very, very difficult precedent. It would mean that anybody could put down a question about any document, whether or not the Minister had access to it, on the assumption that the Minister then would have to rush out and find the document, in order to be able to give an answer at 2 o’clock. That would be an impossible and stupid position to put any Government in.
Well, let me rule on the other one, and then I will take Dr Smith’s new point of order. The Minister was entitled to answer the question in the way in which he did. As members know, the document was tabled, and it referred more to local authorities than to the Minister. But the Minister was perfectly entitled to answer in the way in which he did. Also, he is not responsible—no Minister is—for the actions of local authorities.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. The House needs to know that the report was placed on the website of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment at 9 o’clock this morning, when it was provided to me.
That may well be true, but it does not alter the point of order. [ Interruption] No, I have ruled on this point of order.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In doing some of the research for this question today, my staff advised me that the report about the environment management review was actually released yesterday—
Well, that is all very interesting, but, as I have said—I am sorry; please be seated—the Minister was perfectly entitled to answer in the way that he did.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Is it still possible, despite the discussion earlier, to seek leave to have the question moved to tomorrow—to have another shot?
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
What penalties exist for local authorities such as the Horowhenua District Council, which was found in the report of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment on the Levin landfill to have a history of resource consent condition breaches on the site, some of which have been recurring?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
If the member cares to put that question down as either an oral question tomorrow or a written question, I would be happy to answer it.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
What does it say about the Government’s priority for the environment, when the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment releases a substantive report on the poor management of a landfill for which the Minister has responsibility, but, after the lodging of a question and after the report being available on the website, the best answer the Minister can give the House is “Oh, I haven’t seen the report yet.”?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
This Minister was out of the building at the time. In fact, I rang your office, Madam Speaker, in order to inquire about this question, and even then I was not informed that the report was about to be tabled.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
What confidence can Ngāti Pareraukawa, Ngāti Raukawa, and Muaūpoko have in the recommendation of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment for them to be formally included in the neighbourhood liaison group, when the local authorities were found to be non-compliant by failing to convene meetings of that same neighbourhood liaison group—at least one a year—and by failing to provide members with a copy of the annual monitoring reports?
Hon TREVOR MALLARD Link to this
Far be it from me to take any responsibility whatsoever for local authorities, which of course I cannot. I think the answer is “Not much.”