4. Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) Link to this
to the Minister of Finance
Why did he call the electricity commissioner into his office on 23 May 2006, endorse Transpower’s new proposal to put power lines through the Waikato, and say that he would deny that the meeting ever took place if he were asked?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) Link to this
The only correct part of that statement is that I called a meeting with the Electricity Commission and Transpower. Its purpose was to bang heads together, given the stand-off between, and the bad behaviour of, both players.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
Why, at the meeting on 23 May, did the Minister tell the commission—as was quite explicitly stated by the electricity commissioner at the Commerce Committee—“You have to stretch things a bit.”, and make this statement: “We were definitely being pushed to accommodate Transpower rather than enforce the law.”; and why do Ministers in this Government, whether in relation to the pledge card, Mr Field, and now Transpower, believe they are above the law?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
There are two responses to that. The first is that at the start of the meeting I made it clear that I did not wish to hear any arguments for or against any particular proposal. The meeting was about telling both players to get on and solve the issue, and not to play games with each other—as both were, both publicly and privately. That is the most important point that was made at that meeting.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
Why would Mr Hemmingway, who has been described by this Government as a “person of great integrity”, and about whom the Minister of Energy, last month, said: “a person who had done a very good job” and “we were very fortunate to be able to attract him to this country”, mislead a select committee of this Parliament, and say quite explicitly, not once but five times, that at that meeting Dr Cullen made it absolutely explicit that they should get on and approve the Transpower proposal, against the law?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
I regret to say that what Mr Hemmingway says is simply not true. I gathered at the meeting that he was not entirely listening to what was going on and, unfortunately, his more recent statements demonstrate that. But of course it was Dr Nick Smith who, only 3 weeks before this meeting, asked the Government why it was relying upon the advice of the Electricity Commission rather than that of Transpower. [ Interruption]
Madam SPEAKERHon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
Why did Mr Trevor Mallard release a press statement entitled “Independent assessment of proposed grid upgrade” on 13 April this year, and in that press statement state quite explicitly: “The Government could not influence the outcome at all.”; and why did he then meet with the electricity commissioner and make it plain that he wanted the Transpower proposal approved—how can that possibly be consistent?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
It is not, because I did not. I have already told the member that. What we told Transpower and the Electricity Commission—I have publicly and privately many times referred to the male rutting that was going on between the two of them—was that the interests of the country and the interests of Auckland meant that they had to find a solution and stop playing games with each other.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
How can that Minister’s Government dismiss repeated statements at the select committee, on Radio New Zealand, and on Newstalk ZB, when the select committee heard last Thursday that another member of the Electricity Commission said: “He had worked with Ministers all his career and had never been spoken to the way he had by Ministers under this Government over this issue.”?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
Because in my view both the commission and Transpower at the time were not serving New Zealand well, and I do not apologise for trying to ensure that the commission and Transpower arrived at a solution, in the interests of New Zealand. Mr Hemmingway also needs to be reminded that he has the legal status of the commission wrong. It is a Crown agent.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
Can the Minister tell the House what other independent statutory officers he has been bullying—commissioners from the Commerce Commission, the Solicitor-General, the Commissioner of Police, the Health and Disability Commissioner—and which of those has he been having secret meetings with, behind the scenes, and telling them what to do rather than allowing them to go about their independent lawful business?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
Absolutely none. The only person I know of in this House who has been convicted of contempt in relation to independent officers is that member, for contempt of court.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
I seek the leave of the House to table the very explicit Morning Report transcript in which Mr Hemmingway said that he was told by Dr Cullen to approve the Transpower proposal, and that he would deny that that meeting ever took place.
Hon Dr Nick Smith Link to this
I seek the leave of the House to table the transcript of the Commerce Committee last Thursday, in which Mr Hemmingway made a number of very serious allegations about interference in the independence of the Electricity Commission.