5. Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) Link to this
to the Minister of Finance
Does he still stand by his statement: “If, as some have suggested, New Zealanders are fleeing as tax exiles to Australia, one can only conclude that those individuals are functionally innumerate, and we are probably better off without them.”; if not, why not?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) Link to this
The statement I made in July 2005 was correct in that respect, given the substantial number of taxes payable in Australia that do not even exist in New Zealand. Of course, if Mr Key got his wish when he said he would love to see New Zealand wages drop, then the arithmetic would change considerably, but not for the better.
What would the Minister say to the Bunnings Warehouse staff who went on strike a couple of weeks ago because the starting rate in New Zealand is $12 an hour, and for the same job with the same employer in Australia it is $18 an hour; and if he did talk to them, does he agree with their union’s view that tax cuts would make no difference to that gap? [ Interruption] I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You have allowed that member up the back to interject on, I think, most questions through this question time. That is unusual. If we in National interject on answers, we are brought to task. Apparently, Government members are now allowed to interject on questions continuously.
Madam SPEAKERI will ask the Minister the Hon Dr Michael Cullen to answer the question. That was a question, and you raised a point of order. Members interject across the House all the time, not only on the member who asked the question. I ask members to restrain themselves, but I am sure that no member in this House would want there to be no interjections.
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
I would have some sympathy with the Bunnings Warehouse staff, but I would point out to them that $12 an hour is the minimum wage from 1 April, that that reflects eight increases in 8 years, that the National Party has opposed every one of those increases in the minimum wage, and that the only time National increased the minimum wage when it was in Government was when New Zealand First forced it to.
Charles ChauvelHon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
The Labour-led Government has increased the minimum wage eight times in 8 years, as I have said. We have invested heavily in skills training; we have cut business taxes, which will allow businesses to invest in wages and productivity; we have helped more New Zealanders get into jobs than ever before; and there has been a 25 percent real increase in household income. During the 1990s the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia grew by some 50 percent. It has barely moved at all under this Labour-led Government.
In the light of the Minister’s comment that New Zealanders who go to Australia are functionally innumerate and we are better off without them, does he believe we are better off without the 13 nurses, 10 teachers, 31 managers, 15 builders, and five electricians, as well as the other 600 people who are leaving each week?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
Certainly, one would like to keep those people. There are 48 people I would certainly substitute for any of those, any day of any week.
Is the Minister aware that the average number of people leaving per annum under Labour has been 19,800 compared with, under the previous National Government, 9,800?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
I am aware that every year National was in power the number of people leaving for Australia grew. I am aware that that number peaked out in about 2000, and I am aware that it turned around dramatically. I am aware that it has grown again, and I am aware that the National Party has not announced a single policy that would have any effect on that growth, because tax cuts cannot close the gap on real wages between Australia and New Zealand—it is an impossibility.
Can the Minister explain why, under Labour, New Zealand has lost more than the total number of registered voters in Mt Albert, Dunedin South, Wigram, Mt Roskill, Dunedin North, and Rongotai—the seats of Labour’s front bench—as all have gone to Australia?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
What I am aware of is that New Zealand’s net population has grown very substantially over the last 8 years. Indeed, that is one of the reasons we have seen such a strong housing market for most of that period of time. I am aware that that contrasts significantly with the 1990s under a National Government, and I am aware that National has no answers on these issues except, apparently today, to flog off our strategic assets to foreign control, which Mr Key clearly supports.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
In the interests of getting these New Zealanders to return to New Zealand, what is the likelihood of that happening if they were to hear that a senior Opposition member of Parliament—namely, Mr Key—is advocating a drop in wages?
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN Link to this
I think they would be appalled to learn that the Leader of the Opposition proposed that New Zealand wages should drop, then tried to explain himself by saying he meant that Australian wages should drop, then tried to say he did not mean it at all, then tried to say he did not say it, then got people to ring up the newspaper to try to get the reporter sacked.