11. Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) Link to this
to the Minister of Finance
How much did the Government pay Westpac in bank fees in the last financial year and how much does the Government currently have on deposit with them?
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance) Link to this
If the House will bear with me, the answer is a slightly longer than usual answer. The Government has a master banking agreement with Westpac, under which a range of banking services are provided to individual departments. In addition, departments have supplementary agreements with a range of banks for services not covered by the Westpac agreement. Treasury does not centrally collect information from individual Government entities on the fees paid to, or deposits held with, individual banks. The account balances of all New Zealand dollar Crown and departmental accounts are consolidated at the end of each banking day, and the net balance is then moved to the Crown settlement account at the Reserve Bank. So the Government, in that sense, does not have any deposits with Westpac; they are all held at the Reserve Bank. But the Government does not centrally collect information about bank fees.
Is there an obligation on Westpac, as the Government’s banker, to behave as a good corporate citizen; if so, does the Minister believe that Westpac was acting as a good corporate citizen when it structured its affairs to illegally avoid paying over half a billion dollars in taxes?
That matter, as the member will know, is before the courts at the moment, and in that context I do not intend to comment on it.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The matter is not currently before the courts. The Minister has refrained from answering on the basis of sub judice. The matter is not before the courts; Judge Harrison has ruled on it. There is no appeal currently before the courts. This matter is not before the courts.
Mr SPEAKERThe time for Westpac to lodge an appeal has not expired. Given the large amounts of money involved—in this case, almost a billion dollars—I do not intend to make any comments that might compromise the Crown’s position.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. If we are to accept the Minister’s position, then we as a Parliament have our freedom of speech restricted during the entire period between a judgment being made and the latest that an appeal can be lodged. It seems to me that there is currently no case before the courts, there is no matter of sub judice, and we have a right as a Parliament to speak about an issue until an appeal is lodged.
I think the Minister, in his further answer to the question, pointed out that he does not consider it to be in the public interest to further answer the particular question that the member asked, and I think that only the Minister can be the judge of that. I think the member will accept that there is a lot at stake and that Ministers have to be careful in these matters.
Will the Minister commit to an exit strategy from his use of Westpac as the Government banker, in the light of its conviction in the High Court for tax avoidance—a conviction that means Westpac now owes the taxpayer nearly $1 billion in back taxes and interest payments?
The Government will honour the terms of its contractual arrangements with Westpac, which have been in place now since 1989.
What does the Minister say to hard-working, taxpaying New Zealanders who honestly pay their taxes, while Westpac, the Government’s banker, illegally avoids paying half a billion dollars in taxes?