Indonesia—Bilateral Aid

Well, I tell the House—in that member’s case they would need more than one microchip, would they not? [ Interruption]

Would the House please settle. I assume that is not the Minister’s answer. Would he please continue.

Henare Hon Tau Henare Link to this

It will be, if she goes to Indonesia! NZAID is spending $11.5 million in aid to Indonesia this financial year, with 22 percent or $2.5 million of that directly focusing on strengthening governance, including law and justice, and accountability. In directing all aspects of the bilateral programme with Indonesia, and the governance element mitigating against corruption—

When are you going to East Timor?

I am able to write my own answers, unlike that member, the clown—yes, able to write my own speeches, unlike that peon over there, who cannot think without the research unit doing everything for him. The aid will mitigate against corruption, strengthen local accountability and transparency, combat terrorism, and ensure positive outcomes for local communities—including the eradication of dunces.

Dunne Hon Peter Dunne Link to this

I found it extremely difficult to hear the answer to that question.

I did, too, Madam Speaker, and I sit two seats away from the Minister. With regard to the comments he made about anti-terrorism assistance, is the Minister satisfied that the NZAID funding is doing all that it can do to help the Indonesian Government play a constructive role in the global campaign against terrorism—as was outlined, I think, in his own ministry’s statement of intent?

Henare Hon Tau Henare Link to this

I suppose the answer is that we could always do more. But we are an active participant, alongside Australia, in an array of regional counter-terrorism efforts, including, of course, those of Indonesia. They run through APEC, the ASEAN regional forum, and the Bali ministerial process on counter-terrorism.

When are you going to East Timor?

Shh!

Well, the last time that member went, he was homesick and came home early. Does he remember that? He lasted only 2 days, and came home because he wanted to see his mum.

Would the Minister please continue with his answer.

Dunne Hon Peter Dunne Link to this

Like Australia, we have signed a joint declaration of cooperation to combat international terrorism with ASEAN, and we are a member, along with Australia and the United States, of APEC’s regional movements alerts list.

In the light of that answer, does the Minister and/or the New Zealand Government have any concern about the release of Abu Bakar Bashir after just 26 months of his sentence as part of the Bali conspiracy; if so, given the fact that New Zealanders lost their lives in that attack, has the Government expressed any concern to the Indonesians about it?

The Government did express its concern at the time he was convicted and sentenced, although I think it is fair to say, in defence of the President of Indonesia today, that he was not in power at that time, and that since he has come to power he has been unequivocal in his commitment against terrorism. The Indonesian Government has taken steps to bring the Bali bombers to justice, and its relentless pursuit of Azahari bin Husin bore fruit in November of 2005, as we can witness.

Why has the Minister done nothing to publicly convey the concern of New Zealanders over the release of Abu Bakar Bashir, an architect of the Bali bombings in which New Zealanders as well as Australians were killed, when the Australian Prime Minister, Mr Howard, has taken that man’s release sufficiently seriously to raise it directly with the Indonesian President?

Mapp Dr Wayne Mapp Link to this

The chronology of events is very important. That is why I said that that man was convicted and sentenced before the President came to power. That sentence was set in stone, so it is hardly befitting someone who was not the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade at that time—Mr Goff was—to now intervene, when that decision is one for the domestic law of Indonesia. We do not interfere with the domestic law of other countries, but at the time I can remember Mr Goff expressing his concern.

Talk to John Howard.

Talking about it now is a bit late—John Howard or no John Howard.

Is the Minister aware that the acting Australian Ambassador to Indonesia has raised Australia’s concern about the release of Abu Bakar Bashir directly with the Indonesian Foreign Minister, and specifically sought assurances about measures being taken to ensure that he does not engage in terrorist activities now that he is released, and can he tell the House whether the New Zealand Ambassador to Indonesia has done likewise; if not, why not?

I want to point out to the member that the Government supports the rule of law. The facts are that this man was charged, was convicted, and was sentenced. That was the duration of his sentence. What can we now possibly raise with Indonesia that has any merit other than an attempt to interfere with the law of Indonesia and its processes, without any colour of right whatsoever? If the member thinks that the sentence was too short, so do I, and so do most New Zealanders. But if the member is suggesting that we can do something concrete about it other than attempt to interfere with another country’s domestic law, without having a law to rely upon in terms of the action, then frankly he does not understand his job or the law.

The Minister is asleep on the job.

I was admitted to the Bar; that member never was. I wonder why he was not.

I seek leave of the House to table press clippings from Australia, outlining both the position adopted by Mr Howard and the statement also from the Australian Foreign Minister regarding his instructions to the acting Australian Ambassador to Indonesia.

Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? Yes, there is.