6. KEITH LOCKE (Green) Link to this
to the Minister of Foreign Affairs
What are the job titles of the three Burmese Government officials sponsored via the Minister of Foreign Affairs to study in New Zealand, and what checks were made by the ministry to ensure that the officials had not held “controversial roles” in the Burmese regime?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY (Minister of Foreign Affairs) Link to this
All three Burmese officials taking part in the English Language Training for Officials programme are from the most junior of the six ranks of officials in the Burmese Public Service. The first official is an attaché from the planning and administrative department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the second official is a staff officer from the general administration department of the Office of the Government, and the third official is a staff officer of the office administration of the Ministry of Home Affairs. The English Language Training for Officials programme for ASEAN nations has provided English language training for over 750 officials in the 18 years it has been in operation; 35 of those officials have been from Burma. All Burmese nationals applying for entry are assessed by the immigration profiling group. Applicants considered to pose any risk to New Zealand are not granted a visa.
What are we doing training Burmese Ministry of Foreign Affairs officials, whose job is to present the regime in the best possible light, using, after their training here, very good English?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
First of all, I say that it is generally felt that exposure to the principles of human rights, the rule of law, and democracy in New Zealand is generally regarded as a beneficial education for officials, in addition to the English language that they acquire in this country. Also, there have been 35 Burmese officials trained under the English Language Training for Officials scheme; there has never been a decision to suspend the scheme at any stage. The whole scheme was suspended pending a review in 2008, and there were no applicants from Burma in the first intake after it was reinstituted. In 2010 there were applicants from Burma. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade sought my concurrence to allow those applicants to be selected according to the long-established criteria.
Using the same principles the Minister has just outlined, do we offer training through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to any officials from the Fiji regime in order to assist Fiji’s return to democracy?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
As I indicated in my primary answer, the English Language Training for Officials scheme is designed for the ASEAN nations, and, when I last inspected a map, Fiji was not located in South-east Asia.
Will he give an assurance that Government officials from Burma, while in New Zealand, will not monitor the efforts here of anti-regime refugees?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
I give the member an assurance that junior officials are selected for those programmes, and those who undertake the selection process give full consideration to the sorts of issues that the member has just outlined. This is an ASEAN-wide programme, which is intended to have a constructive influence. In addition to introducing English language, it also exposes those officials to good standards of governance, and to principles of democracy, human rights, and the rule of law. Those are regarded widely as beneficial matters. I say to the member that we have talked widely to our partners around the world about engagement with Burma. That member will be aware that the United States, under the Obama administration, made a decision to re-engage with Burma at a lower level. I took the opportunity personally to talk to Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, Kurt Campbell, and also to the chairman of the United States Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on East Asian and Pacific Affairs, Senator Jim Webb. They went to Burma to look at precisely how we can best contribute to that process through schemes of the sort that we operate.
Does he accept that even the most junior officials will be allowed to come here only if they are totally supportive and loyal to the regime, and does he accept that it is possible that those officials will report back to the regime on the activities of Burmese anti-Government activists who live in New Zealand?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
I hope that the officials who come to New Zealand on the scheme will report back to Burma on the excellent standards of governance, adherence to the rule of law, and respect for human rights that they have found in New Zealand. That is the sort of report I hope that they will convey to Burma. But I emphasise to the member that we do take seriously the concerns he raises. He does not need to convince me, or I am sure many other members of the House, that the standards of governance in Burma have been appalling. Anyone who saw the bloody repression of Burmese monks on our television screens would have some firm and not very supportive things to say about the regime. However, we are part of an international community that has decided that this year we will try to assist Burma to find a constructive way forward. The English Language Training for Officials scheme will make a minor contribution to that process, and we are mindful of the risks the member outlines in following that course.
Does he not agree, though, that right now, when the Government of Burma has not freed Aung San Suu Kyi, is shutting the National League for Democracy out of the elections, and is clamping down on the Burmese people, is not the time to give points by taking those people from a regime that he, a couple of years ago, described as the “butchers of Burma”?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
I will not resile from any of the harsh things I have said about that regime in the past. I believe that it attracts the very strongest criticism for the steps that have been taken there to repress Burmese monks, in particular. I will say that since the middle of last year there has been a general international consensus that there should be some lower level of engagement with Burma in an attempt to try to encourage those elements in their society who do support moves towards democracy and respect for human rights to make some progress. I agree with the member that the features the member described in relation to the election this year are highly regrettable. New Zealand’s view on that is being expressed very firmly to the Burmese Government, as are, I am sure, the views of other communities around the world.
Speaking of international work and cooperation, will New Zealand be joining with Australia and the United Kingdom, which are supporting the United Nations special rapporteur’s call for a UN commission to address human rights in Burma; if not, why not?
Hon MURRAY McCULLY Link to this
We have not made any statement on that as yet. I will say that, generally, we try to work with our friends in like-minded countries around the world in pursuit of the principles of good governance, democracy, and respect for human rights.
I seek leave to table a public document of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority decision, dated 29 June 2001, on the way in which Burmese refugees and their families are persecuted by the Burmese regime.
Mr SPEAKER