6. SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) Link to this
to the Minister of Justice
Does he agree with the Prime Minister’s statement regarding the Government’s response to gangs that “No one has been idle here. People have been very proactive.”?
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice) Link to this
Yes, and I also agree with the second part of the Prime Minister’s statement, which the member has chosen to omit, that “if there are ways that prove to be effective, where the law can be strengthened, and practice can be strengthened, of course we will also look at them.”
Why should the people of Wanganui and the rest of the country believe that the Minister’s Government cares about stopping gangs from spraying bullets around our streets, when the organised crimes strategy he promised at the last election was going to be released only in another 10 months’ time—March 2008—and when asked about it last year he replied that the most recent work done on this issue was a report from March 2005?
Because, although reports and ongoing strategy work is of course being done, a great deal of practical action has been taken—
I point out to the member, to name but a few: the strengthening of the Bail Act, the Sentencing Act, the Parole Act, section 98(a) of the Crimes Act, of course, under which some successful prosecutions have been taken—
No—more than 40, actually. I am sorry, the member is unfortunately not possessed of the facts. The member’s own party has voted for some of the legislation, even—the Secondhand Dealers and Pawnbrokers Act 2004, for instance, toughening up on re-trading. Right before the Parliament right now is legislation that will cut off the money supply to gangs. This Government is determined to be tough on those organised criminals, and it will be interesting to see whether that member helps or attempts to hinder the progress of that legislation through the select committee.
Madam SPEAKERI just remind members that all members are entitled to hear both the questions and the answers. It was very difficult to do so in that instance. I also remind members, however, that both questions and answers are meant to be succinct and to the point.
Jill PettisCould the Minister please advise the House what the Government is doing about the problem of gang violence in Wanganui?
A multi-agency approach to gang-related issues is currently being led by the police, and I think they are doing a good job. In addition, over the last 12 months the police in Wanganui have commenced an operation based on previous successful operations. This has resulted in over 100 arrests for various offences including firearms and intimidation. In response to the immediate tragic incident and to defuse the situation, police have swamped the area with officers and are undertaking armed patrols. In addition, two iwi liaison officers have also been deployed to the area to assist with community liaison.
Ron MarkDoes he think that the public can be confident that police are equipped with adequate legislative tools to enable them to tackle gangs and gang activities; if so, how does he reconcile this with the statement of Police Association president, Greg O’Connor, who said with regard to gangs: “Every time something happens and hits the airwaves the police say ‘we are on top of this’ and outline things they are doing, which is just crap. The commissioner now is saying it is all right, well it’s bullshit, it is out of control.”?
In the end I think the Commissioner of Police is the most credible source of advice. But I have to say to the member in answer to his principal question that a raft of legislative provisions strengthening the tools available to the police have been introduced, further ones are in front of this House, and we have brought together senior representatives across Government agencies that will be reporting to Ministers this week. If there are further measures that can be taken to further strengthen the tool kit for police, we will do it.
How will the Secondhand Dealers and Pawnbrokers Act prevent a reoccurrence of the drive-by shooting that occurred in Wanganui in recent days?
That, frankly, is an insulting and ridiculous question. It is an offence to the death of the 2-year-old child, frankly.
Now we are getting very close to having question time in silence. I ask the Minister to start his answer again, and just address the question.
I presume that when the member’s party supported that legislation it did so because it understood that it was one small part of making it harder for organised criminals to deal in stolen goods. There is a much more substantial measure in front of a select committee right now, the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill. This can have the potential to cut off the money supply to organised crime.
Well, I will be interested to see whether that member’s presence on the committee helps or hinders its progress back to this House.
Does he recall the statement of his colleague Phil Goff during the debate on the counter-terrorism legislation that “New Zealand is committed on every front to combat terrorism.”, and why is it that this Government is prepared to talk and act tough with regard to international terrorism but when it comes to domestic terrorists it rolls over and admits defeat?
Yes, I recall the comment. Yes, I agree with the comment, and as I indicated in an earlier answer—and the member may not have heard it, because of the noise—if there are further provisions that will have an effect on organised criminals and gangs in New Zealand, then the Government will consider them.
Can he confirm that legislation passed by National in 1997 gave police the power to remove gang fortifications, and will he be asking the Minister of Police why she signed off on a statement of intent, which includes that as one of the Government’s key operational practices, when it has consistently refused to say how many times it has removed fortifications, and when are we going to get some real action instead of more reports and ongoing strategies?
I have given the member a long list of real actions that have already been taken. If the member wants to put down a question to the Minister of Police, he should of course do so.
Heather RoyIs not the real answer in dealing with gangs, rather than making new law, enforcing the laws we have now such as prosecuting gangs for building fences higher than by-laws allow, and the Inland Revenue Department investigating gangs rather than chasing productive New Zealanders; and why will this Government not issue to all Government departments a zero-tolerance policy on gangs for breaking any law, no matter how trivial?
The member raises a fair question in terms of the extent to which proper use is being made of existing law. That is one of the specific questions that Ministers have put to senior officials, and we will get a report this week. If there are provisions not being adequately used, then we will expect them to be more adequately used.
Does he agree with the statement made by the Prime Minister that getting tough on gangs would only increase their mana and drive them underground, and what would the public see this as, other than a total cop-out from a Government that already has laws in place to deal with these issues but lacks the political will to get on and do the job?
Rt Hon Helen Clark Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I draw your attention to a question that attributed a statement to me that was not made. I do not think it is fair to the House for questions to be premised on inaccuracies.
That is a matter of debate. [ Interruption] All members know that if a member says that he or she did not make a statement, then that has to be accepted. Would the Minister please address the question.
The member raised the question; he should pay better attention. The Prime Minister said, very clearly, that this Government will take actions that will have effect—not just cheap political posturing at a time of tragedy.
Chester BorrowsHow can he claim that the Government is doing all that it can to protect the people of Wanganui from gangs, when Mongrel Mob cars, guarding their fort, are able to have rifles prominently displayed in the back seat—or does this just confirm the lack of political will to actually enforce the law where gangs are concerned?
Nobody has said that everything possible is being done. That is why we have senior officials providing advice, this week, to Ministers in terms of what is being done and what, if anything, needs to be added to the long list of actions that are being taken. If that member has evidence of a crime being committed, he should report it.
The Government will give careful consideration to the member’s—[ Interruption] I have only the member’s word that he is going to introduce a bill. We have not seen any bill. How could we possibly say we will support something that does not yet exist? When the member produces a copy of a bill, the Government will give it fair and proper consideration. If it proved to be an effective mechanism for having an impact on criminal gang activity, then of course we would give it strong consideration.
I seek the leave of the House to table Tuesday’s New Zealand Herald report in which Greg O’Connor says that gangs are “out of control”.
I seek the leave of the House to table the Hansard of Phil Goff’s speech during the debate on counter-terrorism legislation, where he states New Zealand is committed on every front to fight against terrorism.