2. RON MARK (NZ First) Link to this
to the Minister of Justice
Is the Government contemplating reintroducing consorting laws to limit the ability of criminals, particularly gangs, to meet and plan their crimes, given his answer to my question in the House yesterday stating: “If there are further measures that can be taken to further strengthen the tool kit for police, we will do it.”; if not, why not?
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice) Link to this
As the member himself pointed out in this House in March this year, the National – New Zealand First coalition changed the law around consorting in 1997 through the introduction of section 98A of the Crimes Act. By 2002 only two convictions, both from guilty pleas, had resulted. Consequently, this Government strengthened the law, resulting in significantly more convictions. However it is still, in my view, excessively complex. That is why I have instructed officials, in consultation with the police, to review this section of the Crimes Act in order to further improve its effectiveness.
Specifically what aspects of a law that would remove the ability of criminals to plan crimes against our society—by allowing police to arrest them if two or more are found together—cause the Minister concern; and is he prepared to consult with the police and the public to test the merits, or otherwise, of such a law?
As I indicated in my primary answer, the legislation that was introduced by the then Government in 1997 was an attempt to improve consorting legislation—as the member himself indicated to the House. I think that it was a worthy attempt but it proved to be difficult. In 2002 this Government strengthened the legislation, and right now I have officials looking at how we can further improve it and simplify it, and also looking at a range of other options to improve the tools available to the police.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. One part of my question asked what parts cause the Minister concern. Could the Minister—through you—expand on the particular part?
Madam SPEAKERThe parts that give me concern with the current legislation are those that are unduly complex. The issue I have specifically charged officials with is that of how the legislation can be simplified to make it more effective and offer greater utility for the police.
Martin GallagherAside from the review of section 98A of the Crimes Act, what other legislative initiatives is the Government undertaking to combat gangs?
Work is currently under way in a number of areas, including anti - money-laundering legislation to address organised crime, and provisions to address juror intimidation. This Government has also introduced the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill to Parliament. This bill will mean that the authorities can more easily strip away the proceeds of criminal activities from crime gangs.
Nandor TanczosWill the Minister commit not to make any hasty new policy decisions in the heat of the moment, but rather agree to take a breath, look at all the options, gather evidence, and talk to other agencies and other political parties about how best to reduce the negative impacts of gangs and gang culture?
I can assure the member that any action will be taken after careful consideration and as much consultation as possible. But it is important that if measures can be taken to improve the tools available to the police to deal with organised crime, we make those available.
Chester BorrowsHow can the Minister claim he is doing all he can to fight gangs when his Government’s record on trying to stop young people from turning to a life of crime includes the failure of the $12 million Reducing Youth Offending Programme to actually reduce offending, the failure to resource youth justice for 5 years after Mick Brown’s critical report in 2001, the failure to set up a truancy database after promising it for three elections, and the failure of the Minister’s group on youth offending actually to meet for 3 years?
As I indicated to the member yesterday, the Government is undertaking a wide range of action now. It has introduced significant changes to the Sentencing Act, the Bail Act, and the Criminal Justice Reform Bill. I invite the member to ensure that the bills currently before the House are advanced as quickly as possible, with his cooperation.
Hon Peter DunneWhy has it taken so long to develop effective anti-money-laundering legislation and almost 3 years to get the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill before a select committee; and when does the Minister expect that both of those initiatives might finally be passed into law so that they can be put into effect?
The member himself knows better than most members of the House the complexity around money-laundering legislation. As to the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill, I tell him that it required updating to make it compliant with international requirements. It is in the hands of members of the select committee to assist the rapid progress of that bill, and I hope we see that cooperation.
Is the reason we are having this continual problem with domestic terrorists not due to the fact that since 1996, when an innocent woman was shot in the chest in Addington in a drive-by shooting, until today, when we are witnessing the funeral of a 2-year-old baby girl shot in a gang-land shooting, we have continued to pause, take long breaths, have hui, order inquiries, and not address the core problem—that is, that we condone and permit criminal organisations that are nothing more than domestic terrorists to exist in our communities?
This is not about pausing; this is about making further changes. This Government has made a long list of effective changes, but as the member himself knows and as I indicated in my principle answer, when in Government he moved to try to make an impact in this area. He has the evidence of how difficult that proved to be. This Government has improved on those measures and will make further improvements.
Yes, I have. I have seen two reports. The first states: “We have to say it’s about time.”, and “It’s a good thing.”, and I agree with that. The second report states: “One thing I do agree with the Minister on, in respect to the process around this bill, is that we need to hit the gangs, in particular in the pocket, if we are to have any impact on their activities.” The first quote came from Ron Mark and the second from Simon Power. I appreciate their support. I hope it is reflected in the work of the select committee.
Does the Minister not agree with New Zealand First in saying that although those pieces of legislation are important and will be effective, they are peripheral to the core problem—the core problem being that we allow criminal organisations to exist to conduct business and to flourish in our communities—and that what the Government needs to do now is enact a suppression of gangs bill that seeks to make gangs illegal organisations, and anyone who is a member of them a criminal and imprisoned for being so?
I do not agree that those matters are peripheral. Some are more directly relevant than others, but I have to say to the member that the most directly relevant is the bill I referred to before—the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Bill. This bill is about cutting off the money supply to organised criminals, and I urge the House to advance it as quickly as possible, because the most effective thing we can do is to cut off the money supply to the crooks.