9. RON MARK (NZ First) Link to this
to the Minister of Justice
Does she stand by her statement that one would be “dreaming” to say that outlawing gangs would minimise their impact on the community, and what progress can she report on proposed amendments to section 98A of the Crimes Act 1961 and to the Sentencing Act 2002 with respect to organised crime?
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Justice) Link to this
Yes, because I believe that no one tool by itself will minimise the impact of organised criminal groups in our communities. Progress is being made on legislative amendments to the Crimes Act 1961 and the Sentencing Act 2002, and I thank the member for his support for the Organised Crime Agency, which is currently being set up to help fight organised crime in New Zealand, which obviously includes gang-related crimes.
Is she aware that the South Australian Parliament is introducing legislation to outlaw gangs, which will enable the police to dismantle gang headquarters, confiscate gang assets, prevent gangs from communicating with one another, and force them to reveal the source of any unexplained wealth; if so, does she think that that Parliament too is dreaming if it thinks those measures will work?
I read in the paper today about that move by an Australian state. I have to say that I do believe we need to use a range of tools. I think that the amendments nearing introduction into this Parliament—for example, doubling the maximum sentence for the offence of participation in an organised criminal group from 5 years to 10 years under section 98A of the Crimes Act, and the changes to section 9 of the Sentencing Act that will direct judges to regard offending as aggravated whenever it is committed for the benefit of, or at the direction of, or in association with an organised crime group—will help to go a long way towards addressing our organised crime problems in New Zealand, and our organised criminals. But I also believe that being able to use the greater powers that come with those changes, such as deploying listening devices and otherwise intercepting communications, will also help. I believe that we need a range of tools to fight organised crime and gangs.
Gordon CopelandCan the Minister envision a gang and drug - free New Zealand, noting that one often goes hand in hand with the other; if so, will she give consideration to following the South Australian lead by putting in place a work programme, including all necessary law changes, to strike a lethal blow aimed at ending both the trade in P and the existence of the gangs themselves?
I do believe it is important that we do all we can to outlaw organised crime, gangs, and illicit drugs in New Zealand, but I think we have to be realistic. To outlaw something completely would be very difficult. I think we have seen in the past that we have tried to outlaw things, only to find that they go undercover and underground, and sometimes because they are outlawed they gain even greater status than they had. So I think we need to address the issue with a range of tools and with commitment, which this Government has shown.
Chester BorrowsCan she confirm that the Government receives support from New Zealand First for laws that make it easier for gang members to get bail?
Has the Minister seen the comments of the Labor Premier of South Australia, the Hon Mike Rann, where he describes gangs as “terrorists within our community” and “evil within our nation” and declares that his state Government will target at least eight groups with new laws allowing the Attorney-General of South Australia to declare a bikie gang to be an outlawed organisation; if she has seen those comments, does she not see the striking similarity between the comments of the South Australian Premier and the comments of New Zealand First, and why, if that is the view of her Labor colleagues in Australia, does she not accept it and move with New Zealand First to pass laws to outlaw gangs, as well?
Madam SPEAKERI think it is appropriate at this stage to say that the Standing Orders and Speakers’ rulings require that members ask their questions succinctly and that the answers be given accordingly. There has been a trend for ever-lengthening speeches to be given.
I say to the member that I am very happy to work with New Zealand First on a range of proposals, and, in fact, have already been working with the member and New Zealand First around organised criminal activity. I think that we are making progress, and I would hope that the member will support the amendments that we intend to make to section 98A of the Crimes Act, which will give additional support to the fight against organised crime.
Is the Minister aware of the comments and reports from the police Ministers conference held here in Wellington in June of this year, where the South Australian representatives made very clear the successes they were having with regard to gangs, called for a Commonwealth or a federal approach to the problem, and pointed out that their successes were causing gangs to move out of South Australia across state borders; if those observations are accurate, can she not see the danger to New Zealand—
Would the member just get on with his question. It is a long question, ignoring what I suggested before.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know you have made that ruling and that caution to us as members quite frequently. I have taken the time to count the number of words in some of the questions asked by John Key and Bill English, and I ask for some consistency. It appears that I might have some things wrong and might have totally misinterpreted how long my question should be—
Does the Minister not see the danger that New Zealand First sees that as the states of Australia combine under a national policy to tighten up on, break down, and eliminate gangs, there is a very real danger, if we do not move with Australia, that rather than moving into states in Australia, the gangs will move their corporate offices to New Zealand?
One of the advantages of being part of the ministerial council of police Ministers is that we share information with Australia. In fact, there is a meeting of police Ministers in New Zealand tomorrow in Christchurch. I have no doubt this issue will be discussed. We can learn from each other. We want to put in place the best possible mechanisms to fight organised crime in both our countries.
I seek the leave of the House to table the bill that the Hon Michael Atkinson, the Attorney-General for South Australia, is tabling today—