9. Hon TAU HENARE (National) Link to this
to the Minister of Maori Affairs
Does he have confidence in his ministry; if so, why?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Māori Affairs) Link to this
Yes; because its employees are hard-working and conscientious people.
Why did the Minister tell the House on 22 November that Te PuniKōkiri’s expenditure on contractors and consultants has decreased, when Te PuniKōkiri’s annual reports from 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 show an increase of expenditure on those consultants by up to 67 percent?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
I understand that the use of consultants and contractors is a lot less than it was in that member’s time as Minister, and it is comparable with that by other organisations. It is not true that it has increased.
Dave HereoraHon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
Yes. I have as much confidence as the new National Party has, even though the edict of user-pays is starting to creep back in. I have seen a list of the National Party spokespeople, and I note that there are two spokespeople for Māori affairs, one of whom has a role specifically related to Te PuniKōkiri. Given that National’s previous leader wanted to get rid of Te PuniKōkiri, I am very pleased that the Māori spokespeople from National have now recognised the ministry’s importance.
Can the Minister explain why Te PuniKōkiri’s expenditure on contractors has risen by an amazing 243 percent since 2001—which just happened to be while I was not here?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
The use of contractors and consultants by the ministry or by departments is an operational matter. Therefore, the responsibility is that of the chief executive. I tell that member, because everybody is poaching the staff, then that is certainly a better use—
Is the Minister concerned that the Auditor-General has advised that Te PuniKōkiri regional offices do not monitor progress in meeting contract milestones, do not ask for or even receive financial information detailing how contracts were being fulfilled, and do not even apply the ministry’s own operational guidelines to those contracts?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
I assure the member, again, that my ministry advises me that the expenditure on contractors and consultants has decreased. I tell that member, in relation to his question, that Te PuniKōkiri has built up a huge reputation with ministries, and the results for Māoridom are showing that.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that you could argue that the Minister addressed the question, but it is like asking how tall the palm tree is and getting the answer that it is Tuesday. The answer bears no relevance to the question. I do not think the Minister addressed the question, because it was about something completely different. I accept that answers can be along the lines of questions without actually answering those questions, but I do not actually think the Minister addressed the question this time.
Madam SPEAKERI thank the member. If members wish me to rule on these matters, then I ask members to keep the interventions down, because I could not hear what the Minister was saying.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Kia ora, Madam Speaker. Kia ora, tātou. Is the minister aware that Te PuniKōkiri’s website promotes Vaka Moana, which “takes us forward as a nation, helping us to see ourselves as a part of the Pacific family”; in light of that, what advice has Te PuniKōkiri offered the Minister about the impact of Government statements against the actions in Fiji, in the context of the Pacific family?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
My ministry has not given me any advice on what should happen in Fiji. This Government has been explicit in its view of what has happened in Fiji.
Does the Minister agree with the advice of the Auditor-General that Te PuniKōkiri cannot provide any information on cost effectiveness, as required by section 40 of the Public Finance Act; and how does the Minister intend to rectify this problem?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
I can attest to the high consistency by Te PuniKōkiri in working closely and better with other Government agencies, and more so in being the closest interface between any Government agency and the Māori people—more than the distant stance that that member has.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I asked about the information provided with regard to cost effectiveness and section 40 of the Public Finance Act, and what the Minister intended to do to rectify the problem that Te PuniKōkiri has—not something about something else that bears no relevance to the actual question.
I note the member’s point. But I also noted carefully the Minister’s answer, which did indicate that Te PuniKōkiri had been working with other agencies to address that. So the answer may not satisfy the member, but the Minister did address the question.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Is the Minister aware of the tribunal ruling that the Crown must consult tangata whenua about the Australia New Zealand Therapeutic Products Authority, legislation on which is rumoured to be introduced into the House shortly; and what advice has his ministry given him about Māori views on that authority?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
There are ongoing discussions between countries in relation to the situation of therapeutic products and so forth. I continually get advice in respect of flora and fauna, and on a whole lot of matters that are relevant to that issue.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I follow my colleague Mr Henare in respect of the Minister not actually answering the question. I accept that some of the information the Minister gave might be relevant in the bigger picture, but it is not specifically relevant to my question. I ask whether the Minister could rethink an answer—or perhaps you could give some guidance on that?
No, I note to members that when general questions like this are set down and then a variety of issues are specifically raised in relation to them, then often the answers that emerge are not satisfactory from the member’s point of view. But the Minister did address the question. I also further note, while I am on my feet, that when members do ask in questions for a Minister’s opinion, or for the Minister to agree with something, then they are likely to get an answer that gives that opinion. It will not necessarily be factual.
Shane JonesHas the Minister received any advice on the impact of the decision of the Māori Party to support the coup in Fiji, in relation to Māori relationships with the rest of the Pacific?
Does the Minister agree with the advice by the Auditor-General—and here is the kicker—that Te PuniKōkiri cannot provide sufficient information to justify its expenditure in 2005-06?
Paula BennettHon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
I have a great view on that. The Māori Potential Framework approach that the ministry is taking provides for a balanced approach between focusing on addressing issues of disadvantage and making the most of Māori talents, skills, and assets. That person was moved over because he was not doing anything about Māori affairs. The problem with that member is in his heart and his head.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I accept your earlier rulings about the addressing of questions, but surely to goodness you cannot accept that that reply addressed my question, which basically asked whether he agreed with the advice of the Auditor-General that Te PuniKōkiri could not provide sufficient information to justify its expenditure in the last financial year. The Minister’s answer had absolutely nothing to do with that question. Surely to goodness you cannot allow him to get away with not even addressing the question.
Given the level of intervention while the Minister was, I believe, attempting to address the question, it seemed that the members who were intervening were not interested in the answer. If the Minister wants to add further to his answer, and if we could have a reasonable level of noise in the House, I ask him to do so.
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
No, I do not agree, because a lot of progress has been made. I want the member to be specific about what he started to say. A lot of progress has been made. When the member started Aotearoa Television, it went down. This other one has gone up, and that is what I want to say to him.