12. Hon TAU HENARE (National) Link to this
to the Minister of Maori Affairs
Is the Māori Trustee intended to be independent of the Crown?
If, as the Minister says, the Maori Trustee is independent of the Crown, how is the Crown able to purloin $35 million out of the general purposes fund?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
The Maori Trustee will be included on the fourth schedule of the Public Finance Act. This is currently not the case. The other issue is that the $35 million that will come out to support this is money earned on interest—it is in the general purposes fund. It is technically recognised by Crown Law as the Maori Trustee’s money.
Moana MackeyWill the Minister ensure the Māori Trustee’s independence under the Māori Trustee and Māori Development Amendment Bill?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
Yes. At present the Māori Trustee is an office conferred on an employee of Te Puni Kōkiri. The bill will establish the Māori Trustee as a stand-alone entity that is separate from Te Puni Kōkiri. This will underline the independence of the Māori Trustee in carrying out his or her responsibilities.
Can the Minister confirm that the Māori Trustee’s general purposes fund is made up from income generated by, and derived from, beneficiary money?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
The Maori Trust Office Regulations 1954 require the Māori Trustee to pay set interest rates on beneficiaries’ money in the common fund. Those rates are 3 percent for balances less than $5,000; 4 percent for balances between $5,000 and $50,000; and 5 percent for balances over $50,000. The bill will remedy the interest differential by requiring the Māori Trustee to review on a quarterly basis the interest rates paid, taking into account market rates and similar types of investment.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I ask your assistance, Madam Speaker. Without my going through my question again, do you think that that reply addressed the question?
Madam SPEAKERI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. My question was: “Can the Minister confirm that the Māori Trustee’s general purposes fund is made up from income generated by, and derived from, beneficiary money?”. The Minister went on about something completely different—
I am sorry to interrupt the member but I have ruled on that. Yes, the Minister did go on, and I thought he was addressing the issue. If the member wishes to ask another question of the Minister, he should feel free to do so.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
What does the Minister understand by the term “independent of the Crown”; and as a precedent would he follow the Quality Inn deal of 1991, when the Māori Trustee put in three-quarters of the money for one-quarter of the dividends, ownership, and action—which was supported by the then National Party—then when the Hawaiians flogged off that share it was owned by the Singaporeans, which was also supported by the National Party; and does he regard that as being an example of being independent of the Crown?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
That is a very good question. It was an outrageous situation that Tau Henare helped to put Māori people in.
As the Minister said in answer to my question in the House last Tuesday that the Crown Law Office advised him that the general purposes fund is owned by the Māori Trustee and that no other person has a claim over it, how does he think he can purloin the $35 million out of the general purposes fund?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
I am not too sure why the member is waxing on about purloining, because this is about an injection and progressing Māori into the future. This is about ensuring that they have a fund to use when they cannot get access to banks or anything else. What is wrong with that, and why is that member moving against this legislation? The legislation is positive for Māoridom.
How many trustees will be appointed by the Minister of Māori Affairs to the new Māori Business Aotearoa New Zealand entity, and has the Minister shoulder-tapped anybody to be a part of the new team?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
There will be trustees appointed by the Minister, just as is done with judges and other people. It will go through a process. At the end of the day, a lot of the Māori farmers who are very supportive of Labour and the Māori landowners will certainly put names up, as we would expect. This is about progress. I remind that member that in 1996 he stood up and said he would halve the Māori unemployment rate, and it moved up to just under 20 percent. He stood up and said the same thing again in 1998. I tell the House that this Māori Trustee—
The member is right. The first part did, but the second part certainly did not address the question; it went off on a tangent.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that you have just ruled on this matter, but investment in Māori enterprise—the extensive amount that has occurred under this Government as a result of Treaty settlements and a number of things—has resulted in a substantial decline in Māori unemployment, whether or not the National Party likes it.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
On the question that Mr Henare asked as to whether the trustees would be shoulder-tapped, did the Minister hear Bob Clarkson’s interjection that it depends on how much money they get, and can he confirm that none of them will ever be appointed from the Blue Chip group of companies, which are so beloved of Mr Clarkson?
Can the Minister confirm the statement made by the Hon Shane Jones that the proposed Māori Business Aotearoa New Zealand entity will receive millions of dollars purloined from the Crown Forestry Rental Trust and the Poutama Māori Business Trust; if so, what right does he have to purloin money set aside for use in Treaty settlements to give to his personal appointees to use as a Labour Party slush fund?
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA Link to this
That is an outrage. I know full well that Mr Jones, who went to Harvard University, is too wise to say that nonsense. At the end of the day, the member is making it up, again. I remind that member that the Māori Trustee will be included on the fourth schedule of the Public Finance Act, which is not currently the case. The reporting obligations for bodies included on the fourth schedule of the Public Finance Act reflect the independence of these organisations. Examples include Ngāi Tahu Ancillary Claims Trust, the New Zealand Fish and Game Council, and the New Zealand Lottery Grants Board. I ask the member what is wrong with that.