10. HILARY CALVERT (ACT) Link to this
to the Minister of Maori Affairs
Does he stand by his statement “the focus will be on finding the best balance of customary rights and the interests of the wider public.”, and what concerns, if any, has he raised with the Attorney-General over the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill?
Hon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of Māori Affairs) Link to this
Yes, indeed, I do stand by that statement. As Minister I have not raised any concerns with the Attorney-General about the bill, but I have made representations to the Attorney-General in other capacities.
Does he share Ngāi Tahu’s concern that the bill “would revisit on us the injustices of the past because it is built on tests that exclude us from our rights, based on past injustices.”; if not, how are Ngāi Tahu wrong?
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek some clarity, and I suppose it goes to the issue of responsibility for answering these questions. In this case, questions in respect of the pire takutai moana sit firmly and squarely with the Attorney-General. Although in the past you have accepted that it is OK for Ministers to give opinions and to say how they feel about particular things, it must be within the realm of a particular portfolio. In this case, the Hon Mr Finlayson is in charge of the bill and therefore would be the appropriate person to answer the question, which seeks a view about Ngāi Tahu. Mr Speaker, I ask whether you could consider that, please.
Mr SPEAKERThe member has made a very good point of order. It is quite correct that supplementary questions must relate to the Minister’s responsibilities, and questioners need to be careful not to ask about the detail of the bill, which is the responsibility of the Attorney-General. I invite the member to restate her question, bearing that in mind. Her primary question was perfectly OK, because it asked whether the Minister stood by his statement and what concerns he had raised with the Attorney-General, but she cannot question the Minister about the detail of the bill, because that is not that Minister’s responsibility.
I invite the member to restate her question, and I ask for silence so that I can hear it properly, because it is an important matter.
Does he share Ngāi Tahu’s concern as stated in the submission they made to the Māori Affairs Committee that the bill “would revisit on us the injustices of the past because it is built on tests that exclude us from our rights, based on past injustices.”?
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask again for your clarification in respect of the seeking of an opinion, particularly about the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill. The question seems to be heading in the same direction, and therefore should be fairly and squarely in the hands of the Hon Mr Finlayson, surely.
It is an interesting issue. The question asked whether the Minister shared the concerns of Ngāi Tahu, who made submissions on the bill. Ministers, especially the Minister of Māori Affairs, can be asked for their opinion about matters affecting Māori, without the need for them to comment on the detail of the bill. The Minister is definitely not responsible for the detail of the bill. I believe that the Minister, in so far as he is able, given that he is not responsible for the bill, could attempt to answer that question.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The problem might be, firstly, that the Hon Dr Pita Sharples was not at the select committee hearings and is unable to offer an opinion on that submission, because he has not seen it. Therefore the question is pretty much out of order.
The member has made a perfectly good point—that would be a perfectly good answer. That is the thing. In answering that kind of question, Ministers who are not responsible for a bill can answer in that way.
Hon Dr PITA SHARPLES Link to this
Although I am not responsible for the bill, it will come before me after the select committee has finished with it; then I will deliberate.
Does the Minister of Māori Affairs agree with Māori Party MP Hone Harawira that the bill is “not what we marched for in 2004”?
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask you to reflect again—the question is in the same line as the first question—that any reference to the bill itself must surely fit with the Attorney-General, who has responsibility for this particular bill. Of course, that is where it should fit.
These are important issues, and I would like to suggest that a member cannot ask a Minister who is not responsible for a bill whether they agree with a particular statement such as the one quoted, because it is inviting the Minister to accept some responsibility for the bill, and it is not the Minister’s bill. I have to rule that question out, but this is the member’s last supplementary question, so I will give her another chance to ask a supplementary question. But she must remember that the Minister she is questioning is not the Minister responsible for the bill. The question cannot, in any way, cause him to act as if he is responsible for the bill. That makes questioning quite difficult, but I do not want to rule out the member’s opportunity to ask a further supplementary question.