3. GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) Link to this
to the Minister of Police
Has she been advised of reports in the Dominion Post that Mongrel Mob members in Aramoho, Wanganui, were earlier this week “guarding their fort” and that “a Ford Falcon circled the area with a rifle prominently displayed in the back seat”; if so, what actions did police take?
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Police) Link to this
Yes, I have seen the report, and so have the Wanganui police. However, the Wanganui police tell me that they received no report of anyone at the time the car was said to be circling “the area with a rifle prominently displayed in the backseat.” If such an incident had been reported to the police, the police tell me they would immediately have investigated. As it is, however, the police say that the only vehicles they are aware of carrying arms in the vicinity of gang houses in Wanganui are, in fact, police vehicles.
Is the Minister telling the House that the two reporters who have said they are prepared to stand by their statements are wrong, and that the police in this case are right?
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. They did not report it, because the police were not too far from where they were, and they thought they could see it.
Hon Dr Nick SmithI take exception to the member for Nelson saying that the police are soft on crime. I take exception to that. He is a silly little man and makes these comments often.
Madam SPEAKERI say to all members in the House that these abusive comments thrust across the Chamber at each other lead only to disorder.
How can New Zealanders feel safe, and believe the Minister and the Prime Minister when they talk tough about getting tough on gangs, while existing powers such as the power to disarm gangs when they openly flaunt illegal weapons in public are not even being enforced; and, before she tells us that they are, how on earth did the gangs come by a weapon that enabled them to kill the 2-year-old?
This Government has not gone soft on law and order or on gangs. In fact, it has been quite the opposite from this Government. I also say to the member that as far as the police were concerned about a gun in a car, it came up at a press conference as an anecdotal piece of evidence, and no evidence was given to the police. If any reporters in New Zealand knew of a gang member driving around with a gun, they had a duty to tell the New Zealand Police, and they did not. In fact, the police contacted the editor to ask for the evidence—to be given the information. They have not got the information, but I have no doubt that if they received it, they would investigate. To imply otherwise is an insult to the New Zealand Police.
Is the Minister now telling the House that the gangs in Wanganui do not have illegal firearms, have not ever had illegal firearms, and are not likely to have them in the future—is that what she is saying to the House, and is that what the police really believe; if that is the case, how can members of the public have any confidence in the police when they are told in their newspapers that gang members are driving around town intimidating people, with rifles clearly displayed in their cars?
First of all, the newspaper report did not say anything of the sort; the member is making that up. Secondly, gang members are not allowed to have weapons. They were never allowed to have weapons. I wonder whether the member raised this issue in 1996 when an innocent woman was killed in a drive-by shooting in Christchurch—in his own patch. Did he ask then whether the gangs should have guns? The answer would have been, of course, that they should not have guns. When the police find the gang members and arrest them, they will not have guns. However, those that do commit crimes are likely to have guns, and also other contraband that they ought not to have.
What does it say about the police capability and public safety when the media can observe gang members blatantly carrying firearms around the town; and just who is in charge of things in Wanganui—the law or the lawless—because the public are seeing the police standing by, effectively allowing one gang to protect its patch against invasion from another; where is the law being exercised to the advantage of the residents of Wanganui in that situation while we have the police effectively protecting their local gang?
That member has not a scrap of evidence for the nonsense he has just put into this House. In fact, he made it up. I can tell this House that the police in Wanganui have not been soft on gangs. They have been hard on gangs—the exact opposite. In the last year in Wanganui they have made 100 arrests of gang members; they have had 30 search warrants of just gang members; and they have had dedicated staff, with training, working with gangs in Wanganui. They have worked very hard on the gang issue. I think what that member is doing is trying to put a little bit of spite into it in order to spite the local member Chester Borrows, because he is doing far too well and is making that member look a fool over law and order issues.
Tim BarnettFurther to those comments, can the Minister confirm that in the past year Wanganui police have made around 100 gang-related arrests on charges including firearms and intimidation?
I can confirm that, and I just wish the National members who grandstand on these issues had passed more than one piece of legislation when they were in office from 1996 to 1999 to deal with gangs, so interested were they. I would just tell them to look at what the police do day in, day out for 24 hours a day. Chester Borrows knows what the police do in Wanganui. He supports their work, and I bet that he is not in favour of that member coming into the House and trying to insult and bag the police for not doing their job. New Zealanders know that they do, and I am proud of the work they do.
If it is true that the police in Wanganui have made arrests for the possession of illegal firearms by gang members in the last 12 months, why did they not use the powers they have now to turn all the gang headquarters, living spaces, and other such places upside down so the gun that shot the 2-year-old last weekend was taken from gang members—as the law currently provides?
Until we know the outcome of the inquiry we do not know that this gun was even held in Wanganui. The member makes a lot of assumptions. I will leave it in the hands of the police to do the investigation into this tragedy. I would certainly not be prepared to grandstand on this to try to get a few votes through the media by pretending, as a party, that one is tough on law and order, because National is not. It did nothing about the gangs when it had the opportunity. We have taken the opportunity in many respects to toughen the law to ensure we have more police and to ensure we put an emphasis on gangs. So when it gets to going soft, that member can certainly talk about going soft.
Is the Minister now suggesting that this gun may well have been put in a car somewhere else in New Zealand, driven through the streets of Wanganui, and used for this shooting; if so, why does she not accept that the two Dominion Post reporters did see gang members with guns displayed visibly in the back of their car, intimidating the residents of Wanganui—what is so hard about it when one can mount one use as a defence and the other as being a reason or a cause?