2. Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Why does she still have confidence in her Minister of Social Development and Employment?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) Link to this
Because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister.
Which David Benson-Pope does she have confidence in—the one who said the allegations against him were a nonsense and that he had never heard of the complaint against him, or the David Benson-Pope who yesterday effectively admitted he knew about the complaint, but changed his story to a denial that he had actually seen the letter of complaint?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Madam Speaker, I would like the response that I am about to give to be heard in silence, and I have a right to request that.
Madam SPEAKERRt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I accept that to most people, including to me, a letter from a parent raising such issues would be seen as a complaint. It is clear that because the issues raised did not breach school policy, and were not dealt with as a disciplinary issue, Mr Benson-Pope did not see that as a complaint when he made his statement to the House on 12 May. In my view, that was an error of judgment, but I do not consider it sufficient reason to dismiss a Minister. That is my judgment.
Rodney HideDoes it change the Prime Minister’s view of her Minister that he re-entered the dorms in 1998 on a school camp—after he had been spoken to by the principal and after the school had developed its policy—where there were 14-year-old girls naked and semi-naked?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
That is an allegation on a website; I am not aware that it has been raised in any formal sense. It does not appear to have been dealt with as a disciplinary matter.
Does the Prime Minister really expect the House and New Zealanders to agree that it was acceptable for Mr Benson-Pope to enter showers and dormitories where 14-year-old girls were semi-clad, because there was no school policy at that time; if so, just what kind of message does she think she is sending the parents of New Zealand schoolchildren by her failure to act?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
There is no evidence whatsoever that Mr Benson-Pope entered showers. If the issues are as serious as the member alleges, they would have been dealt with as a disciplinary matter. The fact is that they were not.
Has the Prime Minister seen the statement made by the Post Primary Teachers Association (PPTA) President, Debbie Te Whaiti, that the PPTA, of which Mr Benson-Pope was a regional chair, had a clear policy in place prohibiting such behaviour well before 1997, and what message does she think her continued defence of Mr Benson-Pope sends to teachers and pupils about acceptable behaviour by members of the teaching profession?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
In respect of the PPTA, there are clear procedures in the collective agreement to be followed when complaints are raised about disciplinary matters. It does not appear that it was raised as a disciplinary matter.
Could the Prime Minister please tell the country why she continues to defend the Minister, who is demonstrably a pathological bully, liar, and pervert?
I withdraw and apologise. Could the Prime Minister explain to the people of New Zealand why she continues to blow her credibility and the credibility of her Government on the Minister, who does not deserve it, rather than dealing with the big problems confronting New Zealand society over this economy?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have to be guided by such matters as a principal who says that it was not a disciplinary matter and that it did not involve a breach of a code of conduct. Certainly, I would view it somewhat less seriously than being associated with shonky investment seminars in Fiji.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I could not hear one part of that answer. If National members wish to ask questions, surely they should entitle the rest of the House to hear what the answer might be—after all, we have not heard one fact from that side of the House yet.
Except for the last comment, I agree with the member. Although, of course, interjections are permitted, if people cannot hear the reply it does defeat the purpose of question time.
Why is the Prime Minister so determined to defend Mr Benson-Pope, when in the past she has shown absolutely no hesitation in dismissing Dover Samuels, Ruth Dyson, Marian Hobbs, Lianne Dalziel, John Tamihere, and Taito Phillip Field, and can she tell the House what it is about Mr Benson-Pope that makes him so special to her?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
There is such a thing as natural justice, and for a man—[ Interruption]
I have just asked the House to keep the level of interjections low, please. I could not hear the answer to the question from here.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
For a man to be hounded from a job for matters that were not considered anything like serious enough to be raised as disciplinary matters with a school board, is quite wrong. I can assure members opposite that if I were to react in the same way to every letter of innuendo I get about many of them, this House would never hear the end of scandal.
What credibility does Mr David Benson-Pope have as her Minister for Social Development and Employment, in light of these disturbing allegations; and is it not time the Prime Minister put the interests of the New Zealand public ahead of those of a man for whom there is a file of complaints that is growing every day?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Disturbing allegations would have been dealt with as a matter of discipline; the fact is they were not.