4. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Does she have confidence in all her Ministers?
Does she condone or approve of Trevor Mallard’s savage attack, using parliamentary privilege, on Erin Leigh when she blew the whistle on political interference at the Ministry for the Environment?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
My understanding is that the Minister spoke on advice. Having read the Hansard, I consider it rather mild by his standards.
Has she sought an assurance, then, from Trevor Mallard that he has the evidence to back up his career-wrecking statements about Erin Leigh; if not, why not?
Judy TurnerDoes the Prime Minister anticipate a drop in confidence in her Minister of Health if he does nothing to reverse the current widespread policy to bring pressure to bear on mothers of newborn babies so that they leave hospital within hours of giving birth; and does the Prime Minister share United Future’s concern that this cost-saving policy is, in fact, a false economy and is putting at risk mothers and babies?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
The Minister and, indeed, the entire Government deplore the way the Capital and Coast District Health Board has behaved.
If the Prime Minister thinks that Mr Mallard’s comments were mild by his normal standards and if she is confident that he was acting on advice, will she, therefore, encourage Mr Mallard to repeat his comments outside the House, or will she repeat them on behalf of Mr Mallard outside the House?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I would encourage Ministers, and, indeed, the member opposite, to sit quietly while the State Services Commission reports.
Does the Prime Minister think that it is appropriate behaviour for a senior Minister of her Government, when he himself is having some problems, to look down the barrel of a camera and beg for sympathy from the people of New Zealand but then, on the very first opportunity he gets, to come into this House and rip some woman apart on evidence he does not have, and to do it in such a cowardly way that he will not repeat it outside the House?
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. We have parliamentary privilege for a very sound reason. We have had it since the Bill of Rights 1688. The leader of the National Party may not understand that, but it is not because of taking preferential treatment against—[ Interruption]
Madam SPEAKERThe member will be heard. There is to be no comment during points of order. I need to hear the whole comment. Please make it succinctly, Mr Peters.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I am doing it as briefly as I can. Just because they cannot understand it, is not a reason why I should not outline the principle of parliamentary privilege. The fact is a member may say something inside this House because he or she can speak honestly without the threat of legal intimidation outside of it. So to accuse someone of being a coward in the circumstances, which is what Mr Key did, is simply unparliamentary, and he should be asked to apologise.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. So is it OK with you for someone to be accused of being a coward inside this House? That is the first time I have ever heard that ruling. Is it OK with you for someone—
Would the member please be seated, or he will be outside this House. I have ruled that the point the member made was not a point of order.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
It is a new point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek clarification from you. Is it OK in this House, from that ruling, for someone to call another person a coward?
Ron MarkRt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. If you look at the Hansard or hear the tape, you will know that two members have just told you what happened. The word “coward” was used. Just because you did not hear it, is of no great matter. We did, and that is why we are raising the point of order.
Unfortunately, it is of some matter. I did not hear it because of the level of noise that goes on in this House. It is almost impossible from this position to hear anything. I am quite happy to look at the record, but I ask the right honourable Prime Minister to please address the question.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have no doubt that Mr Key accused Mr Mallard of cowardice. That is clearly ridiculous, particularly when Mr Key himself could be accused of being a copyright pirate. [ Interruption]
Please be seated. I would ask members please to respect the Standing Orders and to stop these personal references to each other in the asking and the answering of questions.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. In many instances in this House where one member has alleged that another member has said something unparliamentary, you have taken it upon yourself to ask the member who is alleged to have made the comment whether he or she did make the comment, and, if so, whether that member would care to withdraw and apologise. In this instance—
Does the Prime Minister think that it is a good idea that one of her senior Ministers comes into this House and uses parliamentary privilege to defame a member of the public, and if she does think that is the appropriate standard, is she surprised that he will not go outside the House and repeat those statements, as we would expect him to do if he has the information to back them up; and what message does she think that that behaviour from her senior Minister sends to the rest of the people who work in the State Service in New Zealand?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have no evidence that anyone is being defamed except the regular defamation that occurs from Opposition members.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
Is the Prime Minister aware that the last time a State Services Commission report on similar matters was presented, Mr Gerry Brownlee in this House described Don Hunn as a liar, described Dr Mark Prebble as a liar—
Gerry BrownleeHon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
—this is in the Hansard—if so, is she aware of whether any action was taken against the third-ranked member of the National Party by the leader of that party?
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That is a deliberate misleading of the House by Dr Cullen. I made no such comments about Mr Hunn.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
Speaking to the point of order, I suggest that the member might care to look at his Hansard more closely, because I know exactly what he said. But he has just now confirmed that he did call Dr Mark Prebble, the head of the State Services Commission, a liar. He received no rebuke from his leader—no action at all—and why should we put up with Mr Key’s questions on these matters when, in fact, clearly he takes no action on these matters when they occur in his own caucus?
I would just remind members that we get into these situations by the language we use when we are asking our questions and giving our answers. I would ask the right honourable Prime Minister to address the question.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
My understanding is that not only was no action taken against Mr Brownlee on that matter but none was taken previously when he lost a civil case for assault, and none was taken against Nick Smith when a judge advised him that he simply did not believe the evidence that member had given under oath in court.
Will the Prime Minister send a message to the State servants of New Zealand today that they should feel confident that if they have a genuine case where they have seen political interference, they should be able to speak up, or will they know that they will be subject to the sort of callous behaviour that Trevor Mallard meted out; and can she explain whether the reason Trevor Mallard will not repeat his comments outside the House is that one appearance in the dock in a week is one too many and she does not want to make it two?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
My advice to public servants is to follow the whistleblowers legislation. With regard to appearing in docks, the member is lucky he did not do that himself on his electoral enrolment.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
It is a supplementary question. I have given up on the points of order—[ Interruption]—just temporarily.
Rodney HideRt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
Is the member still alive? Why does the Prime Minister not take the standards set by the leader of the National Party, which is to be the beneficiary of an occurrence, which was that of Mr Connell rising in the caucus and telling the truth, thereupon getting totally expelled from the caucus and not reinstated, and he now being in the position has demonstrated that that succeeds in New Zealand politics—why does she not follow that standard?