2. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Does she have confidence in all her Ministers?
Does she, in light of the reports released today, believe that it was acceptable for Madeleine Setchell to have lost her job because of her partner’s political association, and is that in accordance with the generally accepted standards of the New Zealand Public Service?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
No, it was not acceptable for her to lose her job, and I note from the report it is quite clear that Mr Logan consistently ignored advice from the State Services Commission.
Is the Prime Minister aware that the reports released today paint a picture of considerable ministerial involvement in the employment of senior communications managers, and does she accept that this is an acceptable standard for what is meant to be a neutral Public Service?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
No, I have not inferred that from the reports. What I have read is that two chief executives themselves decided to approach Ministers on these matters.
Is the Prime Minister aware that Ms Setchell, having been removed from her job at the Ministry for the Environment, was subsequently denied employment at the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry after the chief executive consulted Jim Anderton, and did not even get an acknowledgment from the Ministry of Education; and is it now the case the public servants with partners engaged in a political role are effectively blacklisted from the Public Service?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
No. Again, I note from my reading of the report that when the, I believe it was acting, communications director at the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry asked Ms Setchell whether she would be interested in him looking for an employment opportunity for her, she herself raised the issue of whether that would be acceptable. The director then of his own volition went to the chief executive, who went to the Minister. The Minister simply quite properly made the comment that he would have some concerns that it might put Ms Setchell in a difficult position. He said nothing that was wrong.
Why would the chief executive officers bother to consult their Ministers about employing Ms Setchell if that was to have no outcome?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
That is, of course, a reason why Dr Prebble advised Mr Logan that he should not be drawing the Minister into it. Mr Prebble’s advice—and later Mr Rennie’s—was very robust, that they should not be paying regard to ministerial views.
Does the Prime Minister think that a 2.5 percent pay cut is the appropriate penalty for the State Services Commissioner; and, if she does, how does she reconcile that with the treatment Madeleine Setchell got: she lost her job, and she was blacklisted in the Public Service under a Labour Government?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
The latter statement is not correct. Ms Setchell, of course, had a termination package that was confidential, so the contents of it are not available to the House. I note in respect of Dr Prebble that the report is very, very clear that his failure to recall the comment made to him by Mr Logan had no effect whatsoever on the outcome for Ms Setchell.
Is the Prime Minister aware that this is the way the New Zealand public see this situation going: an innocent young woman takes a job in the State sector, but because the State sector is no longer neutral under a Labour Government she loses her job, she is blacklisted, the only person who pays a price is her, and the reason that has happened is that the Labour Government intends to use the massive spending of Government ministries to try to buy its re-election—and is it any wonder Labour is on the way out?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Of course those allegations are absurd. I hear allegations on this side of the House—tell us about your war chest, tell us about your secret donors, Mr Key.
Rodney HideDoes the Prime Minister think it is acceptable that the Minister of Agriculture, the Hon Jim Anderton, gave an opinion that the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry should not employ Madeleine Setchell in a contract position on the basis of whom she was sleeping with; and, if that is the standard that is going to be run past her Ministers, given that this is Wellington, where will it end?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Of course, that was not the opinion the Minister of Agriculture gave. He simply observed, when approached by the chief executive, that such an appointment could place Ms Setchell in some difficulty herself, but he made it very clear that employment matters were ones for the chief executive.