2. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Does she have confidence in the Minister of Foreign Affairs; if so, why?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) Link to this
Yes; because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister.
Is it acceptable for a member of her executive to accept a $100,000 gift, and then fail to declare that gift both to the registrar of pecuniary interests and to her as Prime Minister?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
As the member knows, Mr Peters has said he was not aware of who contributed to the fund for his legal fighting costs, just as I note that Nick Smith has not disclosed who contributes to his.
Hon Jim AndertonHas the Prime Minister seen the report on Fairfax’s Stuff website today, which says that the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Key, would not rule out dealing with the New Zealand First leader after the election; if so, what does she make of a party that calls for the resignation of Mr Peters from this Government, but says it would have him in its Government?
Madam SPEAKERI just remind the Prime Minister that she is not responsible for the decisions of another party, but she may address the question as long as she does not address the other parties’ attitude on it.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I note that Mr Peters’ behaviour seems in Mr Key’s mind to raise an issue of integrity when Mr Peters is working with a Labour Government, but, apparently, it would not disqualify him from being on Mr Key’s team.
Peter BrownCan the Prime Minister confirm that the Minister being referred to in the principal question is the same Minister of Foreign Affairs who has worked hard to improve our relationship with the USA, so much so that its Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, has accepted a personal invitation from the Minister to visit New Zealand and has also accepted his invitation that she return home via Samoa in order to meet with Pacific Foreign Ministers; and is that the Minister of Foreign Affairs who is being referred to?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Yes, it is. I know that Mr Peters has formed a strong working relationship with the United States Secretary of State, and, further, that he has been working for some time to ensure that he could facilitate a meeting with her and other Pacific Foreign Ministers. That meeting, of course, will take place next Sunday in Samoa.
Will the Prime Minister be giving Winston Peters her express permission, as required by paragraph 2.79 of the Cabinet Manual, to retain the $100,000 he received from Owen Glenn; if not, why not?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I would need to take advice on what the issue is where a donation has been made anonymously, and then is later declared publicly because Mr Peters’ lawyer has advised him of the facts. I would note that the word of an honourable member is always accepted in this House. Further, Mr Peters’ lawyer, Mr Henry, has entirely backed what Mr Peters has said. Mr Henry, of course, has professional obligations to the Law Society.
Ron MarkI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. During the Prime Minister’s answer, Mr David Carter said: “Oh, but you are talking about Winston Peters.” He implied to the House that Mr Peters is not an honourable man, and that his word should not be taken. That is the implication that Mr Carter gave the House, and I ask you, Madam Speaker, to rule on whether he was out of order in making such an interjection and such an implication.
I did not hear the interjection, but I think it is useful at this stage to remind members that interjections will always occasion a response, and that that response is likely to lead to disorder. If that disorder continued, I might have to rule that the member withdraw from the House.
Can the Prime Minister confirm that in 2007 the Minister of Foreign Affairs brokered a deal with the Minister of Finance to boost New Zealand’s level of overseas aid by $70 million—an increase of over 20 percent, and the biggest such increase in decades—and is that not the Foreign Minister that she continues to have total confidence in?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Yes, I can confirm that Mr Peters has been a very successful advocate for the foreign affairs portfolio, and that has included advocating successfully for quantum leaps in the amount of support that New Zealand gives to developing countries. He has ensured that significant increases have been going to the South Pacific. From the outset of his term as the Minister of Foreign Affairs he has expressed his strong desire to see New Zealand do more to help lift its neighbours from poverty.
Is the Prime Minister saying that the various Ministers she has sacked previously were not doing a good job in their portfolios, and is the test now whether they have done a bad job in their portfolios, not whether they have necessarily done something wrong?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
As Prime Minister I must make judgments on all sorts of things, based on the evidence. What I see at the moment is a range of allegations, all of which have processes that they could be pursued through. I see, for example, that Mr Hide is pursing a parliamentary privileges route. People can pursue other routes through the pecuniary interests registrar or the Auditor-General. Those routes should be followed, and people should get some substance behind allegations if they want to take them further.
R Doug WoolertonCan the Prime Minister confirm that this year the Minister of Foreign Affairs announced the Pacific Development Strategy, which will deliver $2 billion in aid over 8 years, allowing New Zealand to make a sustainable impact on improving health and education in the Pacific, addressing infrastructure gaps, promoting economic growth, and improving governance and leadership?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I can confirm that, and I repeat that Mr Peters has been particularly passionate about ensuring that New Zealand pulls its full weight in lifting living standards and the ability to develop among our South Pacific neighbours.
When will the Prime Minister decide whether Mr Peters can keep the $100,000 he received from Owen Glenn, given that it is the Prime Minister’s prerogative to decide whether a sum in excess of $500 is a gift?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I said earlier to the member that I would take advice on what the situation is in respect of a donation to a legal fighting fund that was previously anonymous but is now public. But I caution the member from going down that line, because I am well aware that Mr Nick Smith is seeking considerable money for legal costs. He said in March that his legal bills had reached $300,000. I looked at Nick Smith’s return to the Register of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament, and I saw no declaration of either debts or gifts.
Barbara StewartCan the Prime Minister confirm that the Minister of Foreign Affairs was last year afforded an invitation to visit North Korea; that later that year he visited that country to explain our longstanding wish to see denuclearisation, peace, and security on the Korean peninsula, and to convey our strong support for the six-party talks process; and that at the conclusion of that visit he travelled to the United States for talks with the Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, at her request?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Yes, I can confirm that Mr Peters has been particularly active on the issue of denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula. He was invited by the Secretary of State, I understand, to take part in talks that went beyond just the involvement of the six parties in the six-party talks. I believe that, on behalf of New Zealand, he has played a constructive role in this issue. It has to be remembered that New Zealand can speak on nuclear disarmament issues with a credibility that, I suggest, no other country has.
Does the Prime Minister accept that New Zealanders who heard Mr Peters categorically deny receiving any money from Mr Glenn are now entitled to feel, in light of recent disclosures, they were totally misled by him; if so, has she required Mr Peters to apologise to the public?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
From, particularly, the time two Saturdays ago when emails emerged that suggested that a donation had been made by Mr Glenn to Mr Peters, Mr Peters was adamant that no donation had been made to him personally or to the party, and I accepted his word as an honourable member. He then, on Friday, was informed by his lawyer that there was a third avenue for donation, and that was to a legal fighting fund. On receiving that information—and Mr Peters’ lawyer, who, I point out, has professional obligations to his society, absolutely backs this up—Mr Peters immediately issued a press statement clarifying the matter.
Pita ParaoneTēnā koe, Madam Speaker. Can the Prime Minister confirm that the Minister of Foreign Affairs this year brokered a deal with the Minister of Finance to boost the operating funding of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade by $523 million, and to provide a capital injection of $98 million over 5 years, which will allow an increase in ministry staff of around 50 percent?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
As I said earlier, Mr Peters has been a very successful advocate for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade—a ministry, I might say, whose capability was very much run down under the previous Government. It is a ministry whose capability has been rebuilt by the Labour-led Government; I am happy to say that that has continued, with bells on, under Mr Peters as Foreign Minister.
When Mr Peters rang the Prime Minister on Friday to tell her that indeed he had received a donation, and that he had been advised of that by his lawyer, Mr Henry, did the Prime Minister ask Mr Peters the obvious question, which was whether he had asked Mr Henry why he had not informed him that he had received a donation, when in February he had conducted a press conference that was intended to lead every New Zealander to believe that he had not received a donation; or is the test that his lawyer will tell him things—or, indeed, Mr Peters will say things—only when they are in the public domain, in an email, and he can no longer reconcile those two statements?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
When Mr Peters phoned me on Friday night, he informed me of the situation. I accepted his word. I also offered him my condolences on the death of his mother, which had occurred earlier that day. I have since seen a statement by Mr Henry, Mr Peters’ lawyer, that says that the way that he handled donations in support of the electoral petition was exactly the same way that he handled donations for the National Party when Mr Wyatt Creech took a petition. I repeat Mr Henry’s exact words: “I was taught the way I am doing it by the National Party in 1987.”
Dail JonesHas she received any recent reports from the media, from officials from other nations, or from Opposition political parties that suggest in any way that the Rt Hon Winston Peters is performing poorly in his duties as our Minister of Foreign Affairs—or in any of his other portfolios, for that matter?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
As Prime Minister, and as someone who has a very longstanding interest in foreign affairs matters, I follow with great interest what our Minister of Foreign Affairs does on behalf of New Zealand, and I can say that I see very substantial reports about the work that he is doing, and I am entirely satisfied with that work.
Dr Russel NormanCan the Prime Minister tell us whether the Minister of Foreign Affairs was involved in negotiating the very substantial tax breaks that this Government has delivered to the racing industry; if so, in those negotiations did he declare the very substantial donations that New Zealand First had received from the racing industry?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
The matters the member refers to are, of course, deduced from the front page of the Dominion Post this morning, and I note that New Zealand First has issued a press statement that describes the article as “a smear campaign of unsubstantiated allegations.” I would further note that, on racing matters, the National Party in its 2005 election policy announced very big tax breaks for the racing industry, and I challenge the National Party, and Mr Key as its chief fund-raiser, to say how much they received from racing interests.
Will the Prime Minister confirm media reports that she and her Minister of Foreign Affairs, Winston Peters, had discussed the appointment of Monaco-based billionaire businessman Owen Glenn to the role of honorary consul in Monaco; if so, when?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have made it clear in the past, when this issue has arisen, that I was aware of Mr Peters’ consideration of that matter. I have also seen Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade briefing papers on it. There is nothing secret about it.
With such achievements as outlined by my colleagues, can she now understand why National is so keen to have the Rt Hon Winston Peters as the Minister of Foreign Affairs, should it regain the Treasury benches?
Does the Prime Minister stand by the statement she made this morning, when she said in relation to Mr Peters: “Until I think it’s seriously affecting the job he is doing, … I don’t have a concern.”; if so, can the Prime Minister confirm that the new standard and test for her Ministers is whether she thinks something is seriously affecting their job, not whether they might have done something wrong?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have consistently said that what is in the public arena is allegations. If the member can substantiate the allegations, let him do so. But I have a duty to be fair to people and not just to follow a bandwagon generated by the Opposition.
Has the Prime Minister seen the allegations in this morning’s Dominion Post that, in addition to the $100,000 cash that Mr Peters received from Mr Glenn, it is now rumoured that $150,000 was received from the Vela family by Mr Peters or his party, and that some of those funds did not find their way into his party’s bank account; if so, what steps will she take to protect the integrity of her administration against serious allegations of this nature?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I am tempted to suggest that that amount of money might be considered petty cash in comparison with donations the National Party may have received in the past from the racing industry, and the insurance industry, and the booze industry, and the tobacco industry. I do not expect a party leader to know the details of anonymous donors, but perhaps Mr Key is operating a different standard.
Does the Prime Minister agree that the funding scandal now enveloping the Minister of Foreign Affairs shows once again that we need to get rid of the anonymous donations regime, so that voters can see who is funding whom and who is getting what?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see New Zealand develop a system like that prevailing in many Western democracies where there is transparent public funding and it is not possible for there to be major corporate and personal donations. I hear the Opposition chirping “Why didn’t you do it?”. Opposition members have never backed such a system, because they are the main bagmen for the big corporate donations.
Why is the Prime Minister continuing to follow in the House this afternoon the same strategy that she has followed ever since these allegations against Mr Peters emerged, which is that instead of actually trying to find and provide answers to serious allegations levelled against a member of her executive, she seems to be claiming that everybody else can go and make inquiries—from the police to the Auditor-General—as long as she does not have to pull the trigger in asking them to do so?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have made the point before in this House and to the media that I do not run a private police force. If I did, there would be many interesting angles that I could follow up in respect of National Party members’ activities.
When the Prime Minister, leading the Labour Party, along with Winston Peters, leading New Zealand First, passed the Electoral Finance Act in a bid to provide transparency for big money in politics, did she expect that one day she would be standing in the House defending Mr Peters, who seems to have received $100,000 but did not want to tell anyone about it?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I think that that is a bit rich coming from a party that has had many millions of dollars of anonymous donations. We now have not only a book called The Hollow Men but also a film called The Hollow Men, and they clearly finger Mr Key as the main gatherer of anonymous donations, when he knows full well where that money comes from.
Rodney HideIs the Prime Minister seriously telling us that in her Government it is OK for a Minister to have a legal bill paid to the tune of $100,000, and to have the Minister not tell her, as long as he does not know who paid the bill; for that same Minister to consider granting a Government favour to the person who paid that $100,000, even though he did not know who paid it; for that Minister then to attack an article as malicious liars, and to demand the resignation of the editor of the New Zealand Herald and its political editor; for it then to become—
The Standing Orders require that at question time questions be asked, not statements or speeches made. Would the member please just ask his question.
Is all of that fact, and is that the standard she has for her Government and for the Ministers of New Zealand?
Judith CollinsRt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Does Miss Collins have something to say? [ Interruption] Down, down! The member still thinks she is at the Casino Control Authority.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You pulled me up during my one supplementary question, to say I had to ask a question. If that is the case, why do you not pull up the Prime Minister and say that she has to answer that question?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
When a small animal is unwise enough to try to interrupt a large animal, the small animal must expect some response.
I am not sure that was a helpful contribution. [ Interruption] Which members would like to remain in the House? I am on my feet; there is to be silence. I listened very carefully both to the question and to the answer. The question was addressed by the Prime Minister.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I would like to address Mr Hide’s question, which was asked in good faith.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
My response to Mr Hide is that I have accepted Mr Peters’ word that he did not know that that donation had been made to his lawyer’s fund. Therefore, it stands to reason—in respect of the question that Mr Hide has asked me—that if Mr Peters did not know that that donation had been given, he could not have done a favour in return for it.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Various allegations have been made this afternoon as if the National Party and, probably, the ACT party know differently from what we in New Zealand First know, which is that Mr Peters did not know what he has told everybody he did not know. On behalf of Mr Peters, I would like to say to the National Party what it once extended to him: put up or shut up!
Gordon CopelandCan the Prime Minister clarify this matter for the House: did the Minister of Foreign Affairs tell her that he did not know about the donation, or that he did not know who had made the donation; could she please be clear, because those two points are quite different?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
On Friday night Mr Peters phoned me to say that his lawyer had been in touch with him to say that Mr Glenn had made a donation to the legal expenses. End of story.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Speakers’ rulings state that questions must be addressed. I specifically asked the Prime Minister to inform the House of exactly what Mr Peters had said, in terms of whether he knew about the donation as distinct from knowing about who had made the donation. I put it to you that, based on Speakers’ rulings, the question was not addressed.
I think it was, because the Prime Minister clearly stated what she had been told. She cannot answer what she was not asked.
Gerry BrownleeDoes the Prime Minister have any concerns that her Minister of Foreign Affairs, a Minister charged with representing New Zealand’s best interests off these shores and, presumably, a Minister who should have his wits about him at all times, apparently did not notice, for nearly 6 months, a $100,000 credit on his invoice?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Obviously, I cannot be expected to take any responsibility for the way in which Mr Henry bills Mr Peters or anybody else.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That answer was an obfuscation of the question, not an answer. The Prime Minister was asked whether she was concerned that a Minister of such stature in her Government—and we have heard today from the Prime Minister what a wonderful job this man does and how crucial he is to her Government—apparently had not noticed, for 6 months, that a very, very large bill had a $100,000 credit against it?