2. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Does she have confidence in all of her Ministers; if so, why?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) Link to this
Yes; because they are all hard-working and conscientious.
Well, I suggest she watches TV tonight. What does it say about the competence of Mr Cunliffe that when he was told in April 2007 that there were serious allegations regarding the head of the Immigration Service breaching the department’s own rules to benefit her family, he decided to do nothing to protect the integrity of New Zealand’s residency process?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I am advised that Mr Cunliffe was advised in general terms of the issue. It was, of course, a matter for the chief executive.
What does it say about the competence of Mr Cosgrove that when he was told in December 2007 that there were serious allegations regarding the head of the Immigration Service breaching the department’s own rules to benefit her family, he also decided to do nothing to protect the integrity of New Zealand’s residency process?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Mr Cosgrove was also briefed in general terms, and was told that it was an employment matter being dealt with by the chief executive.
If the public is to believe that neither Minister was fully briefed about the serious misconduct issues within the Immigration Service, what does it say about their competence that they failed to ask further questions, despite being partly briefed about matters that surely must ring alarm bells with any Minister of any competence?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Ministers expect chief executives to deal with staff issues. Ministers get into trouble when they start interfering with them.
Does the Prime Minister expect New Zealanders to believe that both Ministers Cunliffe and Cosgrove knew and were briefed about the many examples of serious misconduct, including bribery, conflict of interest, and theft, and that both chose to do nothing about what was going on in the New Zealand Immigration Service because, simply, it was an employment matter?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
The member has now broadened his question beyond Ms Thompson to wider issues within the Pacific division of the department. I can say that neither Minister was briefed about the Buddle Findlay report on that matter.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
In terms of parliamentary accountability and reporting to Parliament, what should a Minister do: take the advice of the National Party that one should not interfere with ministerial appointments or staff matters, à la Benson Pope, or that now, on immigration matters, Mr Cunliffe should do so; which of those two totally opposite positions should a Minister take?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I thank the member for his question, because it points out the utter flip-flop in the attitude of the National Party on this issue. Clearly, the right advice is not to interfere in staffing matters.
Well, is the Prime Minister telling us that she expects the New Zealand public to believe that two young Ministers, looking to make their name in her Cabinet, were briefed about highly irregular actions from the head of the Immigration Service, Mary Anne Thompson, and chose to do absolutely nothing about it; and is the reason why she thinks the public should believe that the same reason they should believe her when she says that despite the head of her department—a woman who was briefing her on a daily basis—applying for a job and then withdrawing the application, she, the Prime Minister, who is known for her love of gossip, did not ask why?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I have much more sense than the member when it comes to standing well apart from staffing matters.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
Did the Prime Minister take any comfort on this matter from the fact that the first prime ministerial appointment in respect of the person in question was actually made by one Jenny Shipley, when the National Party was in Government? [ Interruption] I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. There has been a tirade of comment from my right over there that could be put to rest by my explaining that when the person in question worked for me, she had been working for the department for well over a year. That of course is the truth; some members do not like it.
Madam SPEAKERRt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Indeed, I inherited Ms Thompson from Mrs Shipley, as indeed the Labour Government inherited Ms Thompson after she had been through Te Puni Kōkiri under the National Government and Treasury under the National Government, and had ended up in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet.
Why, if this was an employment matter solely, are there now four inquiries under way since this matter has come into the public domain?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Because the Government is tired of being blind-sided, and I state for the record—
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
The Government is tired of being blind-sided around the issues of Ms Thompson and the Immigration Service, of hearing that doubt was raised about the qualifications but that the matter was not adequately investigated, and of hearing about Buddle Findlay reports that were never brought to our attention. Indeed, as recently as this morning on the radio I had yet another allegation put that I had never heard of. That is why the Cabinet has determined that a full and independent inquiry by the Auditor-General is appropriate.
Does the Prime Minister have confidence in Phil Goff, who not only thinks that it is time for a change but who is publicly telling people on Alt TV that the Prime Minister’s leadership is “toast”?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
As the member is the fifth leader of the National Party I have dealt with, I would say there are rather more loyalty issues over there, including one from the person sitting next to him.
Is the Prime Minister in any way concerned that according to Phil Goff, Phil Goff is the future and the Prime Minister is the past?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
Given that the Labour Party has had one leader in 15 years and National has had five, I would not be raising issues of loyalty if I were Mr Key.
Gerry BrownleeI have a document known as Ka Awatea, the flagship of Winston Peters’ time as Minister of Māori Affairs, which was authored by one Dr Mary Anne Thompson. I seek leave to table that document.