11. RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Does she stand by her statement in answer to oral question No. 5 on 26 August 2008 in respect of Rt Hon Winston Peters that “I have accepted the honourable member’s word, and will continue to do so unless something arises out of the Privileges Committee or some other appropriate authority that suggests I should not do so. But I do not have such information.”; if so, why?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) Link to this
As I have said, my assumption was that both Mr Glenn and Mr Peters were honourable gentlemen, and there may well be some innocent explanation.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. You will be aware that that case went to appeal. Judge Dalmer’s word is not gospel any more; there is a higher court ruling. Mr Hide is about to make another stupid mistake because of his ignorance of the law, but those, you know, are the facts. And every law student, right now, studies them.
Madam SPEAKERYes. Well, do we have a case that is before the courts at the moment? And there is no appeal from that judgment? All I need to know is whether there is a lower court judgment—if there is, then that is fine—and whether the case is not still active.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I can help you, Madam Speaker. An appeal was taken from that case, at the lower court. You will remember that rather than being put in front of a jury, the plaintiff just sued for $50,000. That is why he got the lower court. I sought a higher court ruling, and I got a decision, as every law student who has studied the law of defamation knows.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
Well, I could tell you. What is important here is that the higher court ruling stands. Ask any lawyer about that—
No. As I understand, there have been court proceedings. They have been concluded; therefore it is perfectly acceptable to ask questions.
Does the Prime Minister accept Judge Dalmer as “an appropriate authority”, who in Cushing v Peters found that “apart from getting Mr Cushing’s name right in the House of Representatives on 10 June 1992, there is, on examination, not a word of truth in the statements made by Mr Peters on the Four Corners programme and the Holmes show on the 1st and 3rd of June 1992.”, and that “It would be hard to find a clearer case of malice.”; and why does the Prime Minister, on behalf of New Zealand, continue to accept the word of a man whom a respected judge in the New Zealand court found to be a malicious defamer?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
I do not have any knowledge of the case that the member has cited, although I do accept that he may have quoted it accurately. I also know that a judge in another case found that Nick Smith had not told the truth. But three different processes are going on at the moment concerning Mr Peters and his party, and I am awaiting the outcome.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
Is the Prime Minister aware that the case Mr Hide places such great store on was at the lower court in New Zealand at the time, that Winston Peters never bothered to appear because it was a matter of parliamentary privilege in his view, and that when the decision was made against him, even though he did not give evidence at all—nor did any lawyer, for that matter—what he did was to appeal it to the Supreme Court, where the decision in substantial part was overruled?
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
What I take from the contributions made to this particular question and answer session is that the matter was kicked around from one court to another, and that things that stood at the lower court may not have stood at the higher court.
Is the Prime Minister prepared to campaign and be judged at the general election on honesty and integrity as demonstrated by the Clark-Peters Government?
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Mr Hide cannot get up and grossly misinform the whole country and the House by describing the Government in that way. He knows full well what the arrangements are, but, of course, sticking to the truth is not what he does very well.
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK Link to this
The short answer is that of course there is no such Government, and what I would expect to be judged on is whether people are treated fairly and given a chance to put their case.