12. Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) Link to this
to the Prime Minister
Does he have confidence in all his Ministers; if so, why?
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister) Link to this
Yes, because they are all hard-working and competent Ministers.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Does the Prime Minister have confidence in the Minister for ACC, given the clear inconsistencies in the explanations he has given and those provided by the chair of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee, in relation to the circumstances that led to the Minister’s attendance at the committee on 12 March?
Yes, I am impressed that the Minister went along to the select committee. When I was in Opposition and on a select committee it was very difficult to get Ministers to come to it. Labour seems to object when Ministers go to select committees.
Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Ministers have to have some relationship with the truth. I invite the member to give a single example of when I was invited—
Mr SPEAKERWhen I am on my feet, Dr Cullen, the member will resume his seat. It was pointed out the other day that, in fact, refuting an answer is not allowable through a point of order. It is not allowable for the member to do that. The member can ask a supplementary question that challenges what the Minister has said. If the member feels that what the Minister has said is a personal reflection, then there is a Standing Order that will enable the Minister to have a statement withdrawn, but he cannot use a point of order to question an answer. That option is simply not provided for—for good reason.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have repeated yesterday’s error, if I may say so, by actually misunderstanding the point of order. What I am objecting to is the content of an answer that is likely to lead to disorder because it is so offensive. If it is offensive and exception is taken to it, it is a matter of order. To pretend that the Minister who was most related to that Minister when he was in Opposition refused to attend the Finance and Expenditure Committee is a lie.
The member will resume his seat right now. The Hon Dr Michael Cullen knows the Standing Orders better than anyone else. Is he raising with me, under Standing Order 116, the fact that he feels that a personal reflection was cast on him by that answer?
I am trying to assist the member, because there are not many options. He is either, under Standing Order 116, making a point of order that a personal reflection has been made on him personally or—[ Interruption] I have asked for order. This is a serious matter, because I am dealing with a very senior member of the House in his last days. I will not tolerate my rulings being questioned here. I do not care who is questioning them. This House has wasted enough time today. Either he is seeking, under Standing Order 116, to have the comment withdrawn because he feels that it has cast an aspersion on him personally—and if that is the case, then I ask the Minister to withdraw the comment because a personal affront has been taken—
Hon Dr Nick SmithI am dealing with a point of order. Personal offence has been taken. I ask the Minister to withdraw the comment.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Did the Minister of Internal Affairs breach the rules set out in the Ministerial Office Handbook, which state clearly: “If the travel is private, then a standard passport must be used.”?
The Prime Minister has set out his expectations clearly, and the Minister of Internal Affairs has taken all steps to meet those expectations.
Hon Gerry Brownlee Link to this
I seek leave to table a Cabinet minute dated 1984 that makes it abundantly clear that Ministers can be facilitated on whatever passports through the Visits and Ceremonial Office. That has been the practice since 1984 for both public and private travel.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Can I ask whether you have ruled that the answer that was given by the Minister—or the words uttered by the Minister—was an answer to the question, which was a very simple question around whether the Minister breached the rules set out in the Ministerial Office Handbook?
The member still has a number of supplementary questions available to him. I invite him to pursue his point first with the Minister.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Did the Minister of Internal Affairs breach the rules set out in the Ministerial Office Handbook—which was issued in July 2008—which state clearly: “If the travel is private, then a standard passport must be used.”?
I will just repeat the answer to the previous question. The Prime Minister has made his expectations clear that Ministers are to conform with all rules and expectations of a Cabinet Minister, and the Minister of Internal Affairs has taken all steps necessary to conform with those rules.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
How can the Minister of Internal Affairs have taken all steps necessary when yesterday he told the House that he used his diplomatic passport for a business trip—not even a private trip but a business trip—when the rules state that if the travel is private, then a standard passport must be used?
My understanding is that the Minister of Internal Affairs has taken all steps necessary to ensure that his behaviour conforms with the rules.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Did the Minister of Internal Affairs breach the rules set out in the Ministerial Office Handbook, which state clearly: “If the travel is private, then a standard passport must be used.”; if so, how can the Prime Minister have confidence in a Minister who is himself responsible for the different types of passports?
The Prime Minister is satisfied that the Minister of Internal Affairs has taken all steps to ensure that he conforms with the rules that are expected of Ministers. As the member will know, there are a significant number of those rules and expectations, and the Minister of Internal Affairs has taken steps to make sure he conforms with all of them.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Did the Minister of Internal Affairs breach the rules set out in the Ministerial Office Handbook, which state clearly: “If the travel is private, then a standard passport must be used.”; if he did breach those rules, given the fact that he has had three warnings already and that he told the House yesterday that he used his diplomatic passport, how can he possibly continue as a Minister, and the Government pretend to have integrity?