8. CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour) Link to this
to the Minister for Social Development and Employment
Does she stand by her statement “Having been on the receiving end of the DPB and knowing what it was to live from day to day and struggle, there is no way that was the future I wanted for me … That’s the sort of ambition and goals I want to bring to other DPB women” when making decisions regarding policy that may affect beneficiaries, especially solo parents; if so, why?
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment) Link to this
Yes, I do, and it is something I stand by. I thank the member for raising it again, so that we can put it out there as a level of aspiration.
Why, then, was the training incentive allowance good enough for her to take as a solo parent but now is not good enough for her to give out as the Minister for Social Development and Employment, and how can she cut solo parents off from an opportunity that was essential in assisting her to receive further education?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
It may surprise that member, because I am older than I probably look, to know that it was quite some time ago when I was at university and receiving a benefit. We are in different times. These are times when we are making decisions—
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
Listen up: it is called a recession. A recession is what it is called, and we make decisions accordingly.
Mr SPEAKERI am struggling to hear the Minister. The members’ colleague asked a question; I am sure she would like to hear the answer. I am struggling to hear it.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. There was quite a lot of it that I did not hear. Could we ask that she start again?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
The other side of the House may not realise that we are in a recession and we are in tough economic times. This means that we are making decisions accordingly, and $22.5 million will be spent on the training incentive allowance in the next year. We have not cut the training incentive allowance; we have merely changed the level. I think that is about fairness, and about being responsible at this time.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister appeared to make a most inappropriate one-fingered gesture as she sat down. I think Ron Mark got into serious problems when he made a similar gesture. It certainly appeared to members on this side that that was what the Minister did as she sat down.
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I actually take huge offence at that. There is no way that there was any hand gesture. There was a lot of ribbing coming from the other side, which I take in good humour—
That is sufficient. The Minister has denied any such gesture. Point of order, the Hon Trevor Mallard. [ Interruption]
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Do you want to deal with the comment that was just made to you?
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
The first point of order, Mr Speaker, is I take objection on the House’s behalf to your being referred to in that way by Phil Heatley. I ask you to deal with that first.
The honourable member sought to raise a point of order prior to an unwise interjection by Mr Heatley, and I invite him to raise that point of order with me. If he does not wish to, we will go on to a supplementary question from Katrina Shanks.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I do not mind doing it in a different order, Mr Speaker, although it would have been simpler to do it the other way. The first point of order that I stood to raise with you is in light of a letter that you have written to me on a question of privilege, dated earlier this month but received yesterday, where you outline the circumstances in which you accept a breach of privilege. I ask whether, if the television footage shows a gesture from the Minister, it will in fact be a breach of privilege.
Hon Bill EnglishI do not need any assistance. An experienced member like that knows that he cannot raise a matter like that under a point of order. He cannot raise an issue of privilege under a point of order, and he should know that well. I do not think we need to take further time on this. It is—
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The other point of order is about the way that Phil Heatley addressed you during my last point of order.
The Minister’s behaviour was quite inappropriate in interjecting when a point of order had been called. I accept that, but as far as I was concerned it did not impede my paying attention to the member. That is where the matter will lie, although I warn Mr Heatley not to do that sort of thing in the future.
Katrina ShanksHas the Minister seen any recent reports on the number of people moving off the domestic purposes benefit?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I was shocked to discover that over the past 2 years nearly 1,000 people have moved off the domestic purposes benefit directly on to New Zealand superannuation. Although some of those people would have been caring for the sick or infirm, it leaves around 800 sole parents spending the best years of their lives trapped in the welfare system. We intend to intervene earlier to support people back to independence.
Is the Minister aware of the research that highlights the correlation between a mother’s level of achievement and the subsequent levels of achievement that are attained by her respective children; if so, why would she limit access to the training incentive allowance so that sole parents undertaking higher-level qualifications, such as diplomas and degrees, are no longer eligible?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
May I make it clear that what we are actually changing is the level of course. Sole parents can get the training incentive allowance to do a national certificate in journalism, for example, or a certificate in advanced welding, or a certificate in aged care. We are supporting those people to do foundation courses or other certificates; when they get to university and are at university level, then they are on an even playing field with all other students.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
Did the Minister receive a training incentive allowance; if so, did she use her experience on it to argue against cutting that allowance?
I am not sure the Minister has ministerial responsibility for whether she once received an allowance.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I think she has responsibility to use her experience, her life experience, when she is cutting off a ladder that was available—
The member will resume his seat immediately. The member cannot use points of order to try to score political points. That is totally out of order, and I warn the honourable member that I will not tolerate it in the future. The House has been very disorderly today, and points of order will not be abused in that way. I gave the member the courtesy of not ruling out his question, and of allowing him to justify the question. I am now ruling it out, full stop. That question will not be answered, and we will go on to the next question.
Hon David Cunliffe Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I ask for a considered ruling on this point of order, when you have had a chance to reflect upon it. I think it is fair to say that members on this side of the House have in general appreciated your good humour in this House, and your willingness to listen to points of order, and, indeed, to introduce new practice around Ministers and members responding to questions. But, Mr Speaker, you will have noticed that members on this side have been getting somewhat touchy of late, and I submit to you that as you follow your normal practice today of reviewing the tape of today’s question time, you might want to consider the fact that you have now, in a short space of time, threatened one of my colleagues with expulsion from the House—
Hon David Cunliffe Link to this
Mr Speaker, I understand that an interjection has been made during my point of order.
Hon David Cunliffe Link to this
In relation to my colleague Mr Mallard, he did not raise a point of order. He was raising a supplementary question to the Minister, which you then sought to rule out. It is the same Minister who has been on the front page of the Listener, in which magazine she tells the same story that the member has referred to. My point of order is not specific to that matter, but to implore you—because you are a member and Speaker of great good conscience—as you reflect on today’s session, to ask whether there has been a fair balance in your rulings on members from the two sides of the House. I think it is the feeling of the Opposition that there has not been a fair balance.
We will not take this any further. What I will do, instead, is apologise to the Hon Trevor Mallard, because I accept the point that the honourable member has made. Where he, in my view, took the matter too far was not on a point of order. I apologise unreservedly to the Hon Trevor Mallard for my criticism that he was abusing a point of order. However, we have moved on.