4. Hon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader—Labour) Link to this
to the Minister for Social Development and Employment
What recent changes have been made by Work and Income for people on unemployment benefits?
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment) Link to this
We have changed the way Work and Income case management works by letting people on the unemployment benefit access the first available case manager for standard inquiries. Work and Income has reduced waiting times and allowed case managers to see 32 percent more beneficiaries. This is just one example of how we are helping more people into work.
Does she stand by her statements that those who are looking for work but cannot find it will not be penalised and that she is taking great care to be reasonable in implementing the new work-test requirements; if not, why not?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
Yes, and I have obligations and incentives in place that I think make it a fairer system. There are obligations on people on the unemployment benefit to make sure they turn up to appointments and to make sure they are work-ready wherever possible.
Is it reasonable to require a recently unemployed person to seek at least three job interviews per day in order to comply with the new work-test requirements or else have their benefit cut, particularly in places like South Auckland where there is high unemployment and few jobs available?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
The difference is that I believe that people can find work. I support them in that and back them to get out there and to go to interviews. I am very optimistic that they can find work if they are looking.
Hon Darren Hughes Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not believe that that answer addressed the question put down by the deputy leader of the Labour Party. It was a specific question about the reasonableness of the requirement for three interviews a day. The Minister said she believed in people finding work—I do not think there is any member of Parliament who does not—so her answer did not add anything to the question asked by Annette King.
Mr SPEAKERThe question asked whether she thought the requirement was reasonable. That is asking for an opinion, and there is no precise answer to that. The Minister’s answer clearly implied—and correct me if I am wrong here—that she thought it was reasonable, or she would have said it was not reasonable. The Minister’s answer clearly implied that, and if that is not the case she had better correct the answer. She does not appear to wish to.
Is it reasonable to require a recently unemployed person to apply for 10 jobs—that is, put in 10 applications a week—otherwise have their unemployment benefit cut, even if they do not have the qualifications and experience for those jobs; or does, for example, a 22-year-old unemployed person with no qualifications applying for a job as professor of maths at Auckland University meet her work-test criteria?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I say to the member that people cannot find a job unless they are looking. I support those people to look for work. I am quite pleased that Work and Income is showing them jobs that are available and suggesting they apply. I am sure that a level of reasonableness is expected and that people apply for jobs they are qualified for. The odd mistake may be made, but people cannot find a job unless they are looking, and that is a key policy for this Government.
What is fair about a situation where some people have to comply with unrealistic obligations for the Minister’s work-test requirements, yet in other cases a Minister can go overseas for 6 weeks on full pay and fail to meet her obligations as a Minister, such as responding to the Speaker’s request to answer written questions?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I will tell members what is not reasonable. It is not reasonable to leave people to a lifetime on the unemployment benefit and not work test them, which is what happened for 9 long years under the previous Government. This Government will stand up and put people into work wherever possible. [ Interruption]
It is my fault that that happened. I say to members that there is nothing wrong with showing support for an answer, but the level of interjection was totally unreasonable there, and it is not fair on the person asking the question. Under the circumstances I am prepared to give the member another supplementary question if she would like to have it. Members have to realise that the House deserves to hear an answer. If the Hon Annette King would like to ask an extra question, the Speaker has just said that she can.
Do I take from the Minister’s answer that she believes it is reasonable for a person to apply for a job they have no hope of getting—for example, as professor of maths at Auckland University when they have no qualification—because it meets her work-test requirements and therefore makes it right?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
No. What she can take from my answer is that we think it is reasonable that people look for work, that we think it is unreasonable to leave them to a lifetime of benefit dependency, and that, yes, Work and Income will be case-managing and working alongside those people who are on the unemployment benefit. I learnt a lot on my trip away—I thank the member for asking—to the point where I got to have lunch with her former Prime Minister—
The final supplementary question that was asked by the Hon Annette King did not contain anything about the member’s trip or lunch appointments. What is more, the Minister will resume her seat when the Speaker gets to his feet.
Katrina ShanksThere is no way I could hear what the Minister was saying then, at all. I ask, please, for a little more reasonableness in the House.
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
The proportion of young people on the unemployment benefit continues to decrease. It is now at about 30.3 percent of the total. That is down from 32.1 percent this time last year, and it represents a drop of 736 young people in the last month. That is great news, no matter which side of the House one sits on.
Hon Jim AndertonCan I ask the Minister to be very clear about what she said. As I understand it, she is saying that all people who are unemployed are looking for work or are not looking for work—or that all the people who are unemployed and have looked for work have got a job because they looked. Is that what she is saying?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I can understand that that member might be looking for work, and I wish him well in that.
Hon Darren Hughes Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. It cannot be in order for a Minister to begin an answer with such a gratuitous put-down of the member asking the question, particularly a member as senior as—[ Interruption]
Some other members will be leaving this Chamber soon if the place does not come to order. Members know I am pretty tolerant of a robust session; there is no problem with that. But the House is being unreasonable today, and I will not tolerate that. The Hon Darren Hughes has raised a point of order about the answer that was given, but had he listened to the supposed question, he would see that as Speaker I could have ruled the question out of order, because it was not really a question at all. It is very difficult for me to clamp down on a Minister faced with a statement that was masquerading as a question. I think there has to be balance in these things. With that kind of question, I cannot be too hard on Ministers. But I ask the Minister to please not be gratuitous in answering the question.
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I suppose the policy is quite clear that people on the unemployment benefit should be work-ready, should be able to attend interviews wherever possible, and should be able to make themselves as available for work as they can, as the circumstances arise.
Hon Phil GoffIs the implication of what the Minister is saying that the threefold increase in unemployment beneficiaries under her watch is because people are not trying hard enough; if so, how does she explain the fact that 2,700 people in my electorate were looking for 150 jobs at a new supermarket that opened?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
No, not at all. In fact, I am pleased to say that 2,250 people came off the unemployment benefit last month. I believe, though, that there needed to be a balance of incentives and obligations for people, and that is what we have done.
Rahui KateneI apologise to the member. I ask the Hon Darren Hughes and Chester Borrows to please stop this interjection exchange across the House. It is totally discourteous to the member whom I have called to ask her supplementary question.
Does the Minister agree with Ministry of Social Development chief executive Peter Hughes, who suggested that the most recent statistics will show a marked reduction in unemployment benefits and that half of the placements Work and Income New Zealand is making are with young people; and what place has Community Max played in such improved outcomes?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
Yes. The Community Max programme has played an important role in keeping young people attached to the workforce during this recession, especially in our rural communities. However, long-term outcomes for young people depend on getting jobs, and as the economy grows out of this recession, our priority is to get them into work.