4. Hon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader—Labour) Link to this
to the Minister for Social Development and Employment
How does she define long-term welfare dependency in light of her statement that “I don’t think it’s just the length of time, at all”?
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment) Link to this
That is right: I think the length of time is incredibly relevant, but I do not think it is the only consideration. I also went on to say that we could look at those beneficiaries who should have been work tested but who choose not to be, so they are not living up to their obligations. We would have to ask whether they have become dependent on the benefit instead of getting out there and looking for work as they should.
If she is not using the length of time on a benefit as her definition of welfare dependency, why does she continue to give the example of people on a benefit for 4 years or more as the people she is targeting, without mentioning that they might be disabled, terminally ill, or caring for small children, for example?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
As I have quite clearly said, I do not think that it is just the length of time that people have been on a benefit. When we have over 3,000 people who have been on the unemployment benefit, for example, for longer than 2 years, I certainly would have questions about their dependency and whether we were able to move them into work as well. So the length of time is not the only consideration, but it is an important one.
Can she clarify what she meant when she said “The definition of dependency will come down to the individual, and also as a group.”?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I think that what the member may be referring to is that there are people who have been on the invalids benefit for quite some time, and they actually need to be. So we are considerate of those who have long-term illnesses and need State support, and we will be equally looking after them as they need to be looked after.
Who is right: John Key, who said we have a serious and growing problem with long-term welfare dependency; or the Minister, who said last week: “Some may be leaning towards dependency and some may be dependent, but then a huge proportion of them are not. They will move off and on for a short period. Some will be there for a lifetime, and with good reason.”?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I am quite clear that over 9 years we saw 51 percent of people getting sicker, and on the sickness benefit. It seems that under 9 years of Labour, the population got more sick.
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that that answer was quite a long way from the question, and perhaps the Minister might like to address it. She did not do so at the select committee, but I am giving her another chance today.
Mr SPEAKERThe difficulty I have is that, if I remember correctly, the honourable member asked the Minister who was right. Maybe the Minister could respond a little more to that specific question.
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
Both are right, as I have quite clearly stated, as it is not one little definition. I just say that while that side of the House is busy trying to define things, we are busy getting on with the solutions.
Does she stand by her statement at the National Party mainland conference this year that “What were initially National’s slogans have manifested into real policy.”; and is it not her problem that “welfare dependency” was used as a slogan during the election campaign and now she has to spend a million dollars on a working-group to figure out what the slogan meant?
Hon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
I just think that it is quite clear that, yes, I do stand by what I said at the mainland conference. It is quite clear that while members on the other side of the House are trying to decide whether there is a welfare dependency problem, we are getting on with addressing the actual, real issues that are facing us when we have a population that is becoming more dependent over a period of time.
Jo GoodhewHon PAULA BENNETT Link to this
Quite simply, because New Zealanders deserve better than a life on welfare. Dame Carol Black, in the UK, recently reported “For most people their work is a key factor in their self-worth, family esteem and identity.” I am passionately supporting a welfare-sustainable system that supports those who can get into work as they can.
I seek leave to table a quote from an obscure newspaper, the Oamaru Mail, in which the Minister says that these—