4. CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) Link to this
to the Minister of State Services
Is the Government considering any amendments to the Protected Disclosures Act 2000?
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence) Link to this
Yes. The bill would give the Ombudsman an enhanced guiding, monitoring, and investigating role in respect of whistle-blowing. Other amendments would clarify and extend the group of people who can whistle-blow and come within the Act’s protections.
Would the effect of the bill be to extend protection to whistle-blowers wanting to expose important public figures whom they believe have been acting unethically, dishonestly, and even illegally, and getting away with it?
The bill will extend assistance and protection to such groups. It may also discourage efforts to suppress such information by legal injunction—such as Dr Brash has done to try to stop the public finding out what his actual thoughts and actions were, and what motivated him. It is worth the Opposition thinking about the words of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who once said that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Dr Brash is clearly concerned about his actions being exposed to sunlight.
Gerry BrownleeDo the answers that the Minister has just given to those two questions mean that the police were wrong when they asserted that they could not prosecute the Labour Party for its massive election overspend—its $850,000 corrupt dip into taxpayer funds for its pledge card—because it may involve a prosecution of a staff member, when at all times that staff member would have been protected by this legislation, and Helen Clark should have been put in the dock, had the police been more competent in their investigation?
It does not mean that, but before the member points the finger at somebody else, his party should pay back the $110,000 it has not paid for its advertising. National should admit that it went over the limit and face the punishment it will get by way of a fine. It should own up and pay up!
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I know that when the Government asks itself a patsy question and it goes terribly wrong, Ministers like Mr Goff lose their cool. But that answer bore no resemblance to the primary question, whereas, in fact, my supplementary question to Mr Goff did. I would like an answer.
Madam SPEAKERI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Do we take it that this legislation would not protect the likes of Heather Simpson from police prosecution, should she have chosen to dob in the Labour Party—as she should have?
No, we are getting into a debate. But if the Minister wants to clarify the answer, he may. Then we will move on.
Would the legislation protect those responsible for leaking Government information, such as that with which the National Opposition has been involved over many years?
The legislation is designed to promote the public interest by facilitating the disclosure and the investigation of serious wrongdoing. It is doubtful that any of the National Party leaks could be defined in this way, but the definition most certainly would apply to the sorts of allegations made against Dr Brash and other senior National Party figures from within the National Party itself. The double standard is that the party that claims to believe in transparency and openness absolutely refuses to apply those same principles of transparency and openness to itself.
If members wish to remain in the House for question time, they will please keep their interventions to a reasonable level.
They are absolutely consistent with strengthening both democracy and openness. By contrast, the use of injunctions to suppress information that is in the public interest, as Dr Brash has attempted to do, is, as the New Zealand Herald states today, “not healthy for our democracy.” Those who claim that they are ready to be trusted with power have to accept that their dealings should be open to scrutiny. The National Party is not prepared to accept that, and it is certainly not ready for power.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Do I assume that the high-hatted attitude taken by Mr Goff means that Helen Clark will now release all the discussions that took place in her office over the decision to rort the taxpayer of $850,000 for electioneering purposes? Why cannot the Labour Party be honest, open, and accountable?