4. GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) Link to this
to the Minister of State Services
Does he have confidence in the State Services Commissioner; if so, why?
Hon DAVID PARKER (Minister of State Services) Link to this
Yes. I do not defend the State Services Commissioner for his mistakes, but the question for the Government is whether his mistakes were so serious as to justify bringing to an end his long and distinguished career as a senior public servant for this and previous Governments. In my opinion that would be an unjust overreaction, and he has my confidence to continue.
How can the Minister have confidence in Dr Prebble when it is clear that he failed to keep accurate records of discussions he had with Mr Logan about the employment of Madeleine Setchell, he failed to provide his deputy with information about that discussion, he failed to keep his Minister up to date with matters relating to that particular issue, he subsequently overlooked the fact that he had knowledge of the Minister’s involvement in this particular case, and he then failed to provide Public Service leadership to his chief executive officers, meaning that Madeleine Setchell not only faced a sacking from one Minister at the hands of a Minister but also was blackballed in another position by ministerial veto, as well?
The list of alleged errors that the member referred to was actually repetition of the effect of the same error. The omission by Dr Prebble to remember what Mr Logan had told him was behind the errors that were listed by Mr Brownlee. Dr Prebble has done nothing dishonest, and calling for his head would be disproportionate to his mistakes. To overreact would be to create another injustice, and I do not want to do that.
Is the Minister aware that Dr Prebble told the Government Administration Committee today that the sacking of Madeleine Setchell was a mistake, that it should not have happened, and that he advised Mr Logan not to take that particular course of action but the chief executive officer of the Ministry for the Environment was so timid of Mr David Benson-Pope that he decided to go ahead and sack her anyway; if so, how can this State Services Commissioner be expected to oversee the depoliticisation of the Public Service when so many of his chief executive officers are frightened of Ministers and will not take his advice?
I was not at the select committee, so I did not hear what was said. But I have read the report, and the report makes it clear that Dr Prebble did clearly express his opinion to Mr Logan. He also clearly expressed to Mr Logan that at law the decision was Mr Logan’s to take, and the report confirms that Mr Logan did indeed take his own decision. He has now been criticised for that decision and is suffering the consequences of that decision, which is rightly criticised.
Does the Minister think it was acceptable for Dr Prebble to write an op-ed, charitably described by Don Hunn as “only a partial explanation”, particularly when that op-ed explicitly stated that David Benson-Pope was not involved in the decision to sack Madeleine Setchell, a statement that Dr Prebble knew then to be untrue but has since explained away as being not critical to the issue?
Mr Hunn in his report has some sympathy for Mr Prebble wanting to reply to what Mr Hunn referred to as outrageous misrepresentations of events that were occurring in some editorials. Having said that, it was inappropriate for him to do that through an op-ed piece in one particular newspaper rather than through a general news release.
Tim BarnettWas the National Party offered a briefing yesterday on the reports of Mr Hunn and Dr Prebble; if so, did it accept one?
Madam SPEAKERPoints of order are to be heard in silence. People will leave the Chamber if they do not respect that.
The Minister has no responsibility for the National Party’s decisions. But, for the record, we were offered a briefing at 8.45 this morning, which was 15 minutes before Mr Prebble was going to give a press statement. We felt that a 15-minute briefing was the sort of joke and unprofessional way of doing things that seems to have characterised Mr Prebble’s behaviour throughout this whole issue.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Clearly, it is the Minister’s responsibility to answer questions in this House on the actions of the State Services Commissioner. The Minister is not responsible for those actions but he is responsible to respond to the House about those actions. Otherwise, a whole host of questions that members opposite ask would not be able to be answered by the Minister.
Yes. Listening to the argument, I say that the question is in order, though I take note of what Mr Brownlee said.
The issue of whether the State sector had been inappropriately politicised in this issue was of obvious concern to both the Opposition and the Government. The State Services Commissioner, in an effort to be politically neutral, did, in fact, offer copies of the reports and briefings to the National Party, which were declined.
How can the Minister have confidence in Dr Prebble when Dr Prebble now leads a State service sector in which chief executive officers feel they need to consult Ministers of the Crown before they make employment decisions, and what does that say about New Zealand’s politically neutral Public Service?
The assertion in that question is plainly not true. Indeed, Mr Hunn’s report—I think on pages 37 and 38—includes a very good account of Mr Anderton’s response to Mr Hunn in respect of these issues. I think it is a very mature, considered, balanced, and proper response by Mr Anderton at the time to Mr Hunn. Amongst other things, it records the fact that in his 8 years as a senior Cabinet Minister, only two such instances have happened on his watch.
How can the Minister have confidence in Dr Prebble when Don Hunn devotes more than two pages of his report to Dr Prebble’s memory loss, and does he think the words that Mr Hunn uses in the report when he says that we all forget from time to time, particularly as the years advance, is some sort of veiled message to Dr Prebble?