12. Dr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National—Rodney) Link to this
to the Minister of Statistics
How many permanent and long-term departures to Australia were there for the year ended December 2007?
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Minister of Statistics) Link to this
The figure is 41,634, but this figure includes all departures, not just those of New Zealand citizens.
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith Link to this
Is it correct that that exodus to Australia last year represented a loss of 800 people every week, and was that the largest exodus since 1988, when Labour was last in Government?
Hon DARREN HUGHES Link to this
It was the largest number in the time period the member refers to, but in terms of percentage of New Zealand’s population the number was roughly the same as it was when the National Party was in Government in the 1990s, until 1999.
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith Link to this
Can the Minister confirm that the net loss to Australia last year of 28,000 people represented an increase of over a third since 2006, and almost three times the net loss of 10,000 in 2003?
Hon DARREN HUGHES Link to this
I can confirm that there was a net outflow of 28,000 people, a quarter of whom were children. That was the outflow for December 2007.
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith Link to this
Can the Minister confirm that New Zealand experienced a net outflow of 32,700 New Zealand citizens last year, and that a recent survey has shown that New Zealand has the largest brain drain of native-born tertiary-trained people in the whole of the OECD?
Hon DARREN HUGHES Link to this
I cannot confirm that we have what the member said in terms of that study. What I can confirm, though, is that demographers expect New Zealand to be a net gainer in terms of skills through migration policy, and that will continue, and that, over the cycle, in different years there is a different outflow in migration. The member should not hang his hat on just 1 year.
Darien FentonHas the Minister received any statistics on the patterns of wage growth in New Zealand and Australia?
Gerry BrownleeI raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. That question is extremely wide of the wicket. We are talking about immigration here, and suddenly the Minister is asked for statistics on wages. Everyone knows that the answer will be incredibly embarrassing for the Government. I suggest the question should not stand. It is not fair to poor old Darren.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen Link to this
I know that Mr Key is not here to advise the member on this, but Mr Key has been saying for some weeks that the driver of this so-called exodus is higher wages in Australia. Mr Darren Hughes is about to inform the member that that gap opened up hugely in the 1990s, under a National Government, when the exodus to Australia increased every year—under a National Government.
Hon DARREN HUGHES Link to this
Yes, I have received a report about the wage gap between the two countries, and I can confirm that the wage gap—[ Interruption]
Madam SPEAKERWould the Minister please be seated. The question is about statistics. The Minister has responsibility for statistics. Would the Minister now please address the question.
Hon DARREN HUGHES Link to this
Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yes, I have received a report on this matter, and I thank the member for the question, because the report shows that the gap between wages in Australia and wages in New Zealand grew by 50 percent between 1990 and 1999, when the National Party was in Government, and that since the Labour Party has led the Government in New Zealand, wages here and wages in Australia have grown at about the same rate. But, clearly, we have more to do, and the Prime Minister’s statement on Tuesday showed how we are going to do it.
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith Link to this
Given that the Minister is keen to compare performance under National and Labour, is it correct that the net loss of New Zealanders to Australia has more than doubled from the 9,000 per year under the National Government in the 1990s to an average now of 20,000 a year under this Labour Government, and why do so many New Zealanders want to leave under a Labour Government?
Hon DARREN HUGHES Link to this
I have good news for the member. There are 400,000 more people in New Zealand since the Labour Party took office in 1999. The population outflow to Australia in 1999, under a National Government, was 0.6 percent of the population, and the outflow to Australia under this Government is 0.7 percent. In comparing 0.6 percent when we took over and 0.7 percent now, we should consider the bigger size of the population now. I would not be running down New Zealand too much on those statistics.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I accept that you ruled that the Hon Darren Hughes should answer the question that had been asked by Darien Fenton, but if the subsequent comments that you made were to become a ruling, then I think that would significantly expand the scope for asking a question in the House. I wonder whether you might consider giving us some guidance on Tuesday as to whether the interpretation we are putting on—