8. Hon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (National—Pakuranga) Link to this
to the Minister of Transport
Does she believe some new roads in New Zealand could be built as public-private partnerships; if so, when does she expect to see the first of these occur?
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport) Link to this
Yes, I do. In fact, I know that new roads can be built as public-private partnerships, because in New Zealand the private sector already builds our roads, which are funded by public moneys. It depends on how one defines public-private partnerships. The member has made it clear that he is talking about private financing and ownership. The advice we have received from Treasury is that it is sceptical of the value of this type of public-private partnership, and believes that most of the benefits can be obtained in other ways.
Hon Maurice Williamson Link to this
Can I ask whom the public should believe, then: the Minister of Transport, who just says that, yes, she does believe that new roads can be built by public-private partnerships, or her front-bench colleague Steve Maharey, who stated in the Press on 3 October: “The Government is ruling out the use of public-private partnerships in the state sector … even to help construct new roads,”?
I realise that the member had already written out his supplementary question, and did not listen to my answer. I made it clear that we already have public-private partnerships. We have the private sector building the roads; we have the public sector paying for them.
Madam SPEAKERIt is becoming difficult again to hear. If members do not stop barracking, we will be hearing the answers in silence.
I said that it was obvious that the member had already written out his supplementary question, and that he had not listened to my answer. I made it clear that we already have public-private partnerships, in that the public sector pays for the roads and the private sector builds them. My colleague was talking about the fact that we do not believe we need private sector money to build our roads, because the Government can always borrow more cheaply than the private sector can, and if the Government does allow the private sector to finance roads, the people who will pay are the users—in other words, those who use the roads. They will pay a premium for that.
Hon Maurice Williamson Link to this
Can I then ask whom the public should believe: the Hon Paul Swain, who when Minister of Transport said that “Alternative sources of funding, such as tolling and public-private partnerships, can allow communities to develop land transport infrastructure at a time and in a manner that suit them.”, or her front-bench colleague Steve Maharey, who has stated that the Government is ruling out the use of public-private partnerships, especially in the construction of new roads?
I say to that member “Watch this spot!”, because we will soon have tolling—[ Interruption] Just listen! We will soon have tolling on the Albany to Pūhoi realignment B2. It is not a private road; it is a public road that was built with public money and is owned by the public. It will have a toll on it. That is what my colleague was talking about—alternative funds from the public.
Hon Maurice Williamson Link to this
Should the public believe the words of Labour member Darren Hughes, when he said about funding, during the debate on the Land Transport Management Bill: “I welcome the public-private partnerships that are part of the bill. It is a very good thing to have that in law as a kind of innovative solution.”, or those of the front-bench member for the Labour Party Steve Maharey, who has said that this Government has ruled out any public-private partnerships funding, especially for the construction of new roads?
My colleague from the electorate of Otaki welcomes what this Government has done with private sector involvement, and that is build a road at Mackays Crossing with public sector money. This Government believes in the public ownership of roads. We believe that the Government can pay for roads out of public money, and we believe that the private sector knows how to build them.
Peter BrownNoting the questions that are coming from the Hon Maurice Williamson, can the Minister advise the House whether she takes seriously reports from the former Minister, given that he was the most consistent transport Minister that this country has ever had in that he stuffed up all modes of transport—
Please be seated. Obviously, that question contained information and irrelevant comment that the Minister has no ministerial responsibility for. If the member would like to rephrase his question to bring it within ministerial responsibility, he can have one more go at it.
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I was about two-thirds through the question, and the tail end of the question would certainly make it a matter of ministerial responsibility.
If the Minister does not believe my assertions that I have just made, will she tell me which mode of transport—any one of them: air, sea, rail, road, land—the Government has not intervened in to fix?
This Government, with the assistance of New Zealand First and our other supply partners, has managed to address all modes of transport. We have put more money into road transport. We have put considerably more money into rail, and—and I emphasis this—we have bought back the tracks. Maritime transport has had attention that it had never had before.
Oh yes, it has. This Government also invested in Air New Zealand so that we retained our national airline. We have a proud record in transport. I do know that Maurice Williamson is a nice guy, but he was a hopeless failure as a Minister of Transport. He never managed to have any money put into transport. He saw Auckland go from a disaster to an extreme disaster, and we have been left to put in the money to fix the problem. We are certainly doing that, and Auckland appreciates it. [ Interruption]
Now the Government side of the House is actually following the example of the Opposition. Would you please all control yourselves.
Rt Hon Winston Peters Link to this
Has the Minister seen reports of the reception of local government in Queenstown, which was addressed by the then Minister of Transport, Maurice Williamson, of his proposal that all New Zealand roads would be managed by four privately owned companies—a policy written by Jim McLay, now of Macquarie Bank, that National is waiting to put into place if it ever gets into Government?
What we have seen in the last week has been the exposure of the National Party’s real agenda. So when Maurice Williamson talks about public-private partnerships, he is talking about the privatisation of our transport network in New Zealand. He has said it before, he believes it, and that is what National would do if it ever got on the Treasury benches.
Hon Maurice Williamson Link to this
Do the Minister’s answers today about the exclusion of any private funding for roading mean that if the Transmission Gully project requires any private funding at all, then it will not proceed under a Labour Government?
Now we will have this answer in silence. If anyone intervenes, that member will be leaving the Chamber, and that includes those on either front bench.
There are a number of issues. First of all, this is the first Government that has committed any money to even look at building a Transmission Gully road—$80 million to investigate the feasibility of it, and work is under way. That could never happen under a National Government. Secondly, the Government has already said that there is over $400 million of Government money to go towards it. Thirdly, we have said there will be the ability to have a regional fuel tax, which money could go to the Transmission Gully project. Fourthly, they are looking at tolling it, so the public would pay for it. Out of those options, there would be money for the Transmission Gully project without anyone going to Macquarie Bank and National’s mates to put the money in.