4. Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) Link to this
to the Minister of Transport
Has the Waterview Connection Procurement Steering Group reported to Ministers on the feasibility of a public-private partnership for the Waterview Connection; if so, what level of tolling, if any, is the Government now considering?
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Transport) Link to this
Yes, and I say welcome to National’s new transport spokesperson. When he comes to grips with the portfolio, he will realise that I have not only received the report but also released it today, and that I gave details of the extra work that the Government has asked to be done before making a final decision to proceed with the Waterview Connection as a public-private partnership.
Can the Minister confirm that the toll mentioned in her press release is suggested as being about $2 per trip, and that that adds up to $20 per week—which more than wipes out the tax cut that Labour has promised from 1 October?
I realise that the member has not had a chance to read the report or he would know that the Government is not considering any specific level of toll, or whether it is even necessary to charge a toll. In fact, my media release made it quite clear that motorists will not necessarily be charged tolls if the public-private partnership for the Waterview Connection goes ahead. The steering group made it clear that if a toll was imposed, it could only ever be a small part of any funding equation.
I read a report in the New Zealand Herald yesterday, in which Maurice Williamson made a very strong suggestion that National would charge a toll on the existing Auckland Harbour Bridge if it ever became the Government. He said it would be a dreadful distortion if tolls were charged on a new tunnel under the harbour—which he favours as one of the five toll roads—and that means the existing bridge would be tolled as well. I am glad that Aucklanders now know exactly what National has in store for them should it become the Government.
Keith LockeWill we now have the same madness we have seen in Australia, where the private operator of a public-private partnership road seeks compensation when a new public transport service takes away road patronage and undermines toll revenue, which is exactly what we might see with Auckland’s Waterview Connection project if the planned new passenger rail line is built along the same State Highway 20 corridor?
If one is going to look at something like a public-private partnership on a major roading project, one does the work before one opens one’s mouth and makes pronouncements about it. This Government has done the careful work, including asking for additional work to ensure that if a public-private partnership does go ahead, issues like the one identified by the member would be ironed out.
What is the Government’s policy now on tolls, given that it has suggested a $10 per trip toll on the Transmission Gully road—
—no, actually it was the Prime Minister who mentioned it today—that it is levying a $2 toll on the Pūhoi extension, that Dr Cullen said today there might be a $2 toll for the Waterview Connection, and that she is saying there will not be a toll on the Waterview Connection?
I am very happy to assist the member. First of all, it was this Government that passed legislation enabling tolls to be put on roads as long as there was a free alternative. It was this Government that allowed for the establishment of public-private partnerships—the cornerstone of National’s infrastructure policy, but National voted against it. There is no way that this Government would allow a $10 toll to be charged on any road. However, Mr Williamson’s policy announcement at the weekend said that National would pay for its five major projects out of tolls. If a road like Transmission Gully is to be paid for out of tolls, because that would release the money Maurice Williamson said is in the National Land Transport Fund for all the other roads, there would need to be a toll of at least $10—and that is a conservative figure, I say to the member who asked the previous question—for Transmission Gully. That is National’s policy; it is certainly not ours.
Russell Fairbrother Link to this
What other reports has the Minister seen in relation to Auckland roading?
I read the editorial in today’s New Zealand Herald about the National Party having to issue another one of its “clarifications”, this time to cover up for Maurice Williamson’s so-called exuberance. Although I believe the New Zealand Herald was far too polite to say so, instead of saying it was another “clarification” it could have actually said it was “another one of those cock-ups by a National front-bencher, which requires National to cover it up”. That is what National is doing now; it is trying to cover up the truth. Maurice Williamson has always been consistent in his transport policy. He does not beat around the bush; he is upfront and honest. That is the policy, and until yesterday, when there was a front page New Zealand Herald story, the National Party has never contradicted him.
Peter BrownIs the Minister aware that RiskMetrics, a New York-based corporate governance organisation, has delivered a stinging report on the Australian Macquarie Group and Babcock and Brown—the report questions the rates of return and highlights such concerns as high debt levels, high fees, the payment of distributions out of capital rather than cash flow, overpaying for assets, related party transactions, booking profits from revaluations, poor disclosure, a myriad of conflicts of interest, auditor conflicts, and other poor corporate governance—and can the Minister confirm whether either of those organisations will be involved in the Waterview Connection project?
I cannot confirm that any private company will be involved in the Waterview Connection project. As we announced today, the steering group has said it is a project that lends itself to a public-private partnership. But we have asked for additional work to be done before a final decision is made, then it would be open to private providers. Certainly they would have to abide with whatever rules are put around the public-private partnership procurement.
Will the Minister agree that it is a bit odd that after the Government has spent 2 years on examining the Waterview Connection project, which consists of putting a tunnel under a part of Auckland that the Prime Minister is particularly fond of, she is not able to tell us today what Labour’s tolling policy is, when that is such vital information for any private operators who may be interested in the project?
I suggest that the member should have allowed Maurice Williamson to ask the question, because he understands the report and he will know that the report does not set out a toll. The steering group has never suggested a toll, and says if there was a toll it would be a very small toll. I say to members that Labour has a record in terms of the tolls that there have been in this country; they have not been over $2. But no decision has been made as to whether we even need to charge a toll for the Waterview Connection. I ask the member to get up to speed with the portfolio if he is going to do it; otherwise he should give it back to Maurice—at least he is honest.
Gordon CopelandDoes the Minister believe that a public-private partnership will ever build at Waterview without a change of law to permit build, own, operate, and transfer public-private partnerships to be introduced into New Zealand—something that, for ideological reasons, her Government has ruled out?
I also commend the steering group’s report to the member who has just asked that question, because the group made it clear there was no need to change the law in order to enable a public-private partnership to be developed in New Zealand.
What is the Minister trying to hide when, in response to a question about Labour’s tolling policy, she says “Well, there might be, and if there is, well, it might be small, but there isn’t one and no decision’s been made.”; why does she not just tell us Labour’s policy on tolling—or does she not have one?
Labour does have a policy on tolling. We enable toll roads to be developed on routes where there is a free alternative. We have also said, in terms of the Waterview Connection, which these questions are about, that there has been no decision on any toll for that road, and that it may not need one. But we are prepared to do the work before we open our mouths and make accusations—unlike National, which then has to rush out and cover them up by apologising and taking the National spokesperson off the job, because he is not allowed to do it. The only people who are talking about tolls of $3, $5, or $10 are National members. And for their benefit, once again I tell them that the person who suggested that all these national roads of significance—the five of them—need to be paid for by tolls completely was from the National Party, and that that would mean at least 10 bucks on one project alone.