4. Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) Link to this
to the Minister of Transport
What impact, if any, will the outcome of the local government elections have on his priorities for transport funding?
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) Link to this
I do not see any significant change being made, because the Government is already investing in all modes of transport so that people can get around our major cities more effectively. This includes spending on roading infrastructure and rail infrastructure, larger subsidies for buses, rail, and ferries, and so on. The Government will work in partnership with the new councils on what comes next, and will contribute its fair share to the continuing goal of improving commuter transport. Mayors and councillors will need to work out how much ratepayers are prepared to contribute towards accelerating new projects, and to consider not just the capital costs but, of course, the operating costs. I am very pleased to see that the newly elected councils share this Government’s vision for investing in improved road and rail services.
Now that Auckland has spoken very clearly with one voice about its preference for new rail projects over new motorways, will he respond positively to this one voice by shifting funding from motorways into rail?
I am not sure whether that is exactly what they said. Nevertheless, they are of course very keen to see transport be improved in Auckland. The Government is currently investing about $5 billion in transport in Auckland, with $3.4 billion on roading and about $1.6 billion on rail. Roughly about 32 percent of our investment is being made on rail, currently, and of course although rail is growing, it represents about 2 percent of passenger trips to and from work each day in Auckland currently, so there has to be some proportion in the amount given to it.
Will he consider reprioritising his transport funding by moving money from his “Holiday Highway” into a rail central business district loop, given that the costs are about the same, and given that a large majority of Aucklanders clearly want rail more than they want his new motorway?
There are a couple of points there. Firstly, the Pūhoi to Wellsford motorway is, in fact, a multi-regional project between Northland and Auckland; it is not just an Auckland project. Secondly, I again point out to the member that we are spending big sums in the rail area, and I think that that is appropriate. But I should point out to him—as I have, I think, once in the past—just to keep a matter of proportion, that that particular road from Pūhoi to Warkworth currently carries more people per day than are carried on the whole of the Auckland commuter rail network. That just gives some form of proportion on that project. Of course, we also have very large amounts of freight carried on that highway, as well. So the issue is all about making investments right across the transport network, and each investment has to be considered on its merits.
Why is he pouring $1.7 billion into the Pūhoi to Wellsford “Holiday Highway”, when only 8.4 percent of Aucklanders picked it as being the most important transport priority in a recent Herald-DigiPoll poll, whereas about 50 percent of Aucklanders picked rail projects as being the most important transport priority in the same poll?
I point out that that project and other projects are funded from the National Land Transport Fund, not the “Central Auckland Land Transport Fund” or the “Auckland Land Transport Fund”. That is very important, because by the same argument one could ask why we spend money on, for example, roading projects in Christchurch or perhaps near Wellington or in other parts of the country, because Aucklanders want it all to be spent there. Again, the important thing is to invest right across our transport sector. The Government is investing huge sums of money in rail, not just in Auckland but also in Wellington and in the turn-round plan for KiwiRail. I think we have to work on developing all modes.
Why is he taking taxes from Aucklanders and spending them on motorway projects that Aucklanders do not prioritise, rather than spending those taxes on the transport projects, particularly rail, that Aucklanders have said over and over again that they see as the main priorities for their city in order to reduce congestion in Auckland?
The other thing I should point out is that the National Land Transport Fund, and the road taxes and road-user charges that are used to create that fund, are hypothecated for road users. That was set up by the previous Government, which that member was a part of. So that funding is for the benefit of road users—
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister said I was a part of the previous Government, but that is simply not true.
Mr SPEAKERThere are other ways of raising that. If the member wishes to make a personal explanation, he can do that, but he cannot question whether the Minister is right or wrong. He cannot question the Minister’s answer by way of a point of order.
Is he effectively telling Aucklanders, who voted in overwhelming numbers for the rapid expansion of rail throughout their region, that their votes are worth less than the large financial donations from the Road Transport Forum?
I completely reject the grubby assertion made by the member in relation to that matter. I say again that we are investing very, very strongly in both rail and roads: $3.4 billion in highways in Auckland, and $1.6 billion in rail transport. Of course, we are prepared to look at further projects over time, but it is important not just to ensure that the current projects are completed—and there is a considerable period of time before they are—but also to make sure the operating costs of those projects are met. Frankly, that has not been done yet, and we will need Auckland to work with the Government to ensure that we meet the operating costs of that investment, which is already in place.
Hon Darren Hughes Link to this
Does the fact that 12 members of the new 20-member Auckland Council yesterday pledged support for the central business district tunnel loop mean he is now prepared to get beyond his dismissive comments of the past when he was supporting John Banks for the mayoralty, and agree that Aucklanders want to have improved public transport, such as the loop and the line to the airport in Albany?
I struggle with that member’s comments, as they come from the party that was going to sock Auckland with a large regional fuel tax to pay for those projects, whereas this Government has invested very large amounts in the electrification of rail and the electric trains in Auckland. The electrification of rail and the electric trains were appropriated for by this Government last year. The important thing is that yes, there will be further projects over time. The main thing is that we understand the cost of those projects and make the decisions in an appropriate time frame. I am looking forward to having those discussions with the new mayor and the Auckland Council.