5. TE URUROA FLAVELL (Māori Party—Waiariki) Link to this
to the Minister in Charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations
He aha te pūtake mō te whakauru mai i tētahi whakaaro hōu e kīa nei, arā, ko te rangatiratanga Karauna ki ngā hau ō-runga, kei roto nei i Te Pire Whakataunga o ngā Roto o Te Arawa e takoto ana?
[What is the rationale for introducing a new concept, called the Crown stratum, as set out in the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill?]
Hon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) Link to this
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Ka taea e ia te whakaatu mai nōnahea, ā, nā te aha i whakaaro te Karauna nānā te “rangatiratanga Karauna ki ngā hau ō-runga”, i runga i te mea koinei te wā tuatahi kua whakauruhia tēnei take ki roto i te Whare Pāremata i tēnei rangi tonu nei?
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[Can he please advise when and how the Crown assumed ownership of the so-called “Crown stratum”, when it is being introduced for the first time in Parliament today?]
Me pēnei anō te whakautu, ehara tēnei i te mea hōu. Mai rā anō i rapuhia ai e te Karauna i te mana mō ngā wai, me ngā hau ō-runga, i ngā wai katoa. I will say again that this is not a new concept. It has always been the Crown’s view that it has ownership of the water stratum, including the airspace, on behalf of all New Zealanders.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Ka taea e ia te whakamārama,he aha i kore ai te rangatiratanga Karauna ki ngā hau ō-runga i whakaarohia i te wā i whakataunga ngā tono a Ngāi Tahu rāua ko Tūrangitukua nā te mea, he roto kei runga i aua whenua, ā, ka whakauruhia he ture hoki whakamuri kia kore ai e riro ki a rāua te mana mō ngā hau ō-runga, mēnā kāore , he aha ai?
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[Can he explain why the Crown stratum was not considered relevant in the cases of Ngāi Tāhu and Ngāti Tūrangitukua, given that some of the lands transferred would have included water bodies, and will retrospective legislation be introduced to deprive them of their airspace; if not why not?]
I tutukihia ai tērā raupatu kerēme i raro i te Kāwanatanga Nāhinara. I tērā wā, rapuhia tonu ai hoki te Karauna i ngā wai, ngā hau hoki. Pērā anō i te roto o Taupō. Those claims were settled under the previous National Government, and as for Lake Taupō’s situation, which includes ownership over water, that was not as a result of a Treaty settlement.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Kei te pātai au i te pātai mēnā i whakautua taku pātai. Ko taku pātai kē mō ngā kēreme o Ngai Tahu rāua ko Tūrangitukua.
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[I am merely asking whether my question was answered. My question was actually about the Ngāi Tahu and Tūrangitukua claim.]
Āe, i whakautuhia e au i tērā pātai. I tutukihia ai ērā kerēme i raro i te Kāwanatanga Nāhinara. Tuku atu tēnā pātai ki tērā rōpū.
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[Yes, I answered that question. Those claims were settled under the National Government. The question should be directed at that party.]
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. I pātai au i te pātai ki te Minita o te Karauna, kāore au i pātai ki a Nāhinara.
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[I asked the Minister of the Crown the question, and not National.]
Madam SPEAKERTe Ururoa Flavell Link to this
Nā runga i te āhuatanga ko nāia tonu nei te wā hei whakamārama i te rangatiratanga Karauna ki ngā hau ō-runga i raro i te ture, ā, nā tēnei kua aukatihia te mana o Te Arawa rāua ko Tūwharetoa ki a Ranginui e tū nei, ā, nā tēnei ka taea te kī, kāore he mana a ture ngā mahi tohatoha tūāwhiorangi. Mēnā kāore, he aha ai?
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[Given that the Crown stratum is only now being described in legislation, and is being used to deprive Te Arawa and Tūwharetoa of their rights to airspace, does it make the allocation of spectrum, for example, illegal; if not, why not?]
Kei roto i te wāhanga tuawhitu o te Pire o Te Arawa me āna roto, ka puta te kōrero, kua tautokohia hoki te Karauna te whanaungatanga, mai i a Te Arawa ki āna roto katoa. Nō reira, kīhai te Karauna kia kī, kore kau he mana a Te Arawa ki ngā roto.
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[There is a statement in Clause 7 of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill where the Crown acknowledges Te Arawa’s relationship to all its lakes. Therefore, the Crown does not say that Te Arawa has no authority over the lakes].
Clause 7 of the bill acknowledges Te Arawa’s relationship with all the lakes—including the Crown stratum—defined by Te Arawa as being spiritual, traditional, economic, and cultural.
Te Ururoa Flavell Link to this
I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. E pērā anō taku kōrero ki ngā pātai i mua. Ko taku pātai i hāngai tonu ki a Te Arawa rāua ko Tūwharetoa me te āhuatanga o te tūāwhiorangi. Kāore au i rongo i te whakautu ki tērā pātai. Tērā pea, kāre i te tika taku rongo, kei te īnoi atu kia whakautua taua pātai.
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.]
[My point of order is the same as for the previous questions. My question was about the spectrum as it referred directly to Te Arawa and Tūwharetoa. I did not hear the response to that question. Perhaps I did not hear it properly; would the Minister answer it, please?]
As I heard it, the member did address the question. If he wishes to add any more to the answer, he may do so.