5. CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) Link to this
to the Minister of Women's Affairs
Does she stand by her statement to the House on 18 June 2009 that the Government “will leave no stone unturned” in trying to close the gender pay gap?
Hon PANSY WONG (Minister of Women’s Affairs) Link to this
Yes. The full statement was: “thanks to the support of the Prime Minister”—the Hon John Key—“and my senior Cabinet colleagues.”, who supported the Ministry of Women’s Affairs in receiving a Budget increase of $2 million over 4 years to do the work.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
Can she confirm that on average women were paid 12 percent less than men when her Government took office, and that this is still the case?
I have good news for the member. It was the case that the pay gap between men and women had been at 12 percent since 2001, under the watch of the previous Labour Government. After 18 months of the National-led Government, the pay gap is now 11 percent. I have more good news for the member. The 2010 OECD Gender Brief puts New Zealand’s gender wage gap at the second-lowest among OECD countries, when comparing average earnings for full-time workers.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
What new steps has she taken to close the gender pay gap since June 2009, other than commissioning research?
I was going to give a very full answer, but I know that Mr Speaker does not like Ministers to give long answers. All I can say is that 18 months down the track, the pay gap has closed by 1 percent. We obviously have done something right.
Hon Trevor Mallard Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member for interrupting her further supplementary questions, but that answer did not address the question: “What … steps has she taken …?”. There was no reference to the question, at all. She said that she could give a long answer—
Mr SPEAKERNo, no; we have heard sufficient. I think the member makes a fair point of order. The question asked about what moves or what steps—I could not hear the exact word—the Minister has taken to help to close the pay gap. Although I accept the Minister’s point that the Speaker does not want to hear an answer that goes on endlessly, one measure might have been helpful, if the Minister had such information.
I will try my best. The Ministry of Women’s Affairs has five projects on the go. The first one is to address flexible work practices. We already have the research result, and are sharing it with the Institute of Chartered Accountants. I might elaborate on that. We found out that one of the very good firms of chartered accountants, BDO Taranaki, provides an excellent example of how flexibility has contributed to dramatic bottom line results, as well as to lower staff turnover—
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was about what new steps she has taken, other than commissioning research. She is just describing research.
I am on my feet, and there will not be any comments. Forgive me, but I thought I had heard the Minister talking about a policy about flexibility of pay arrangements, which the research appeared to show was having an impact. I thought that was exactly the kind of information that the member was seeking.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
The Minister was referring to flexible working hours, not gender pay equity. My question was specific to gender pay equity actions that she has taken—
I have ruled that the Minister has answered the question. After I accepted that she did not answer it initially, I believe that she has now indicated a policy measure of the Government’s that, in her view, is changing things. The member may—[ Interruption] I say to the front benches on both sides of the Chamber that that is enough.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
How does research into an existing problem help to solve that problem, if no new policies are introduced as a result of the findings?
I am quite happy to go on with my answer. Plenty of leadership is being exercised by the National-led Government in terms of, for example, flexible work practices, which contribute to closing the pay gap. Women may have to take time off work to look after the family, and if they do not return to work on the same pay as previously, that contributes to the pay gap. We are working with the Institute of Chartered Accountants on robust case studies about how other companies can copy a model that would enable women not just to achieve pay equality but also to aspire to break the glass ceiling, in terms of women in senior management and leadership roles. I am just so fortunate and privileged—
That is enough. [ Interruption] Some members on the Labour front bench of this Chamber will be leaving soon, if they do stop being so discourteous. Catherine Delahunty asked a question, and the House has a right to hear the answer. The rabble going on just now was totally unacceptable. I was watching, and I saw that many discussions were going on and members were totally ignoring what was going on in the House. That is totally discourteous. Members may not like the Minister’s answer, but it was the Minister’s answer, rightly or wrongly. The public can judge the quality of it; it is not for members to treat it with discourtesy.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
Did she ask the Minister of Finance to carry out a gender impact analysis of the Budget, to determine whether anything in it would make the gender pay gap worse?
First of all, intelligent men and women in New Zealand understand that economic growth is the ultimate answer whereby we can all have a good living wage and a good quality of life.
The Minister will resume her seat. I invite Catherine Delahunty to repeat her question, and I ask the Minister to listen to it. I ask the Minister now to treat the House with courtesy, to listen to the question, and to please answer it.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
Did she ask the Minister of Finance to carry out a gender impact analysis of the Budget, to determine whether anything in it would make the gender pay gap worse?
No, I did not explicitly ask for that, but I do not believe that anything in the Budget has made it worse, because I have just demonstrated that the pay gap has closed from 12 percent to 11 percent. So the Government must have done something right.
Catherine Delahunty Link to this
What exactly, in the Minister’s opinion, is the role of the Minister of Women’s Affairs in trying to close the gender pay gap, if it does not include introducing new policy or discussing the impact of Government policies such as the Budget on the gender pay gap with her colleagues?
The Minister of Women’s Affairs is providing the leadership. The National-led Government has aspirational goals for women in terms of leadership, equal pay, employment, and eliminating domestic violence in New Zealand.
Carol BeaumontHow can the Minister claim that flexible working practice is an initiative of her Government, when National voted against it?
Sue KedgleyI raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister has made a factually incorrect statement, and I think she—
The member knows that that is not a point of order. It is up to the Minister to answer questions, and she has to stand or fall on the accuracy of her statements. That is not to be questioned by way of a point of order.
No, we voted against flexible working hours, but we are talking about flexible working practice. Just as Mr Speaker invited me to listen to an earlier question, I invite those members to listen carefully to the answers. In the project that we are doing with the Institute of Chartered Accountants, we are talking about whole flexible working practices.